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#85667 - 03/16/05 02:08 PM IDF wise to D&D
Svengali Offline
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
This cracks me up because my opinion of D&D is manifest in IDF policy:

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Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons

IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a low security clearance
By Hanan Greenberg

Does the Israel Defense Forces believe incoming recruits and soldiers who play Dungeons and Dragons are unfit for elite units? Ynet has learned that 18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.



“They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence,” the army says.



Fans of the popular roleplaying game had spoken of rumors of this strange policy by the IDF, but now the army has confirmed that it has a negative image of teens who play the game and labels them as problematic in regard to their draft status.

So if you like fantasy games, go see the military psychologist.



Dungeons and Dragons (also known as D&D) has been a popular roleplaying game for decades and is based on a fantasy world.




One player assumes the role of “Dungeon Master,” which entails directing the game and controlling the labyrinth, while the others select from a large selection of characters that includes warriors, magicians, dwarfs and thieves.

The game focuses on the results of decisions made by the players as determined by the roll of the dice.



In a more "active" version of the game, players leave the table and go out, dressed as the characters they assume for the game, along with the requisite equipment of swords (not real) to play outside, usually in the forest or woods. Most D&D players do not don costumes, and participants in such costume games are called "LARPers" (for live-action role playing).




'Simply detached from reality'



Thousands of youth and teens in Israel play D&D, fighting dragons and demons using their rich imaginations. The game has also increased in popularity due to the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.




However the IDF does not approve of this unusual hobby and prevents D&D players from being considered for sensitive army positions by labeling them with low security clearance.




"We have discovered that some of them are simply detached from reality," a security source told Ynet.



Game enthusiasts are aware of their problematic image in the army and prefer to maintain their anonymity. Many of them are from the former Soviet Union, where the game is very popular.



In Israel there are thousands of players, between the ages 16 to 35, and include lawyers, high-tech workers and businessmen. Matan, 22, and Igor, a 21-year-old IDF soldier, organize activities for groups of players. Soon hundreds of fans are expected to meet in a forest in the southern part of Israel for a two-day game of pure fantasy.


"It's not a game of winners and losers," Matan says, "but rather entry into another world with stories and plot changes."

He is aware of the game's problematic reputation, especially in the IDF. The army is not indifferent to the unique hobby and is trying to locate soldiers who in their free time dress up as witches and play in forests.



'The game indicates a weak personality'



A security official tells Ynet there are specific criteria for deciding the level of a soldier's security clearance.



"One of the tests we do, either by asking soldiers directly or through information provided us, is to ask whether they take part in the game," he says. "If a soldier answers in the affirmative, he is sent to a professional for an evaluation, usually a psychologist."



More than half of the soldiers sent for evaluation receive low security clearances, thus preventing them from serving in sensitive IDF positions, he says.



Igor says exposing soldiers who play the game could result in the soldiers being sent to a military psychologist or even being kicked out of the army.



"Exposing them could also harm their chances at being accepted to other military courses," he says.



Matan says he has personally met soldiers whose military career was harmed due to their connection to the game. Most soldiers who play Dungeons and Dragons simply do not admit to it while they are in the army, he says.



Why does IDF believe game is dangerous?



"These people have a tendency to be influenced by external factors which could cloud their judgment, a military official says. "They may be detached from reality or have a weak personality - elements which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in the army, but not in sensitive positions."




Unsurprisingly, Igor, Matan and thier friends do not approve of this IDF policy. They say the game is only a colorful, non-violent hobby.



"Many people who play served in the most classified units," David says. "They are intelligent and any attempt to label them as 'weird' is incorrect and unfair."



But in the struggle between the gameplayers and the Defense Minister, the latter wins - or at least this is the case in the real world of the IDF.

Source
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#85668 - 03/16/05 02:13 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Creed Offline
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Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
Maybe they're afraid it would take too long to roll a 20 sided die to see if their attack was effective...and then have their foe roll a 7 sided die to see if their defense worked.
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#85669 - 03/16/05 02:17 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

'The game indicates a weak personality'




This part tickled me pink.

I fail to see how a psychologist could call a person with an active imagination as having a "weak personality". Actors get paid millions of dollars to roleplay, or as they put it here, "dress up like witches and play in the forest", yet I somehow doubt that same IDF physician would tell us that actors have weak personalities.
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#85670 - 03/16/05 02:19 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Felstorm]
Svengali Offline
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

I fail to see how a psychologist could call a person with an active imagination as having a "weak personality". Actors get paid millions of dollars to roleplay, or as they put it here, "dress up like witches and play in the forest", yet I somehow doubt that same IDF physician would tell us that actors have weak personalities.




D&D players don't get paid millions of dollars.
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Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
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#85671 - 03/16/05 02:28 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
Its a game. Period. people read books to get lost in fantacy. People watch movies to get lost in fantacy. I see no problem with playing a game to get lost in fantacy. Its just a way to get away from it all. They're just not looking at other factors which causes these people to be so drawn out of reality.
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#85672 - 03/16/05 02:31 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
Yes, and neither would most actors make good military personnel.
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#85673 - 03/16/05 02:40 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: tovasshi]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Its a game. Period. people read books to get lost in fantacy. People watch movies to get lost in fantacy. I see no problem with playing a game to get lost in fantacy. Its just a way to get away from it all. They're just not looking at other factors which causes these people to be so drawn out of reality.




Most people that read books and watch movies for escape don’t sit around with their friends pretending to be the characters for hours on end.

D&D people are usually identifiable on sight, and almost always within minutes of their mouths running. There is a consistent aura of retardedness that clings to them like stale cigarette smoke. Only they are unaware of it.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85674 - 03/16/05 02:47 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Felstorm]
Abbott Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 186
Loc: Atlantic City,NJ
They may have active imaginations, but are readily conformed into the model of mindless automatons, that popular society requires to keep the herd asleep, and subliminally programmed to buy "ACME" "insert product here". Actors, as just stated, also create/ produce something, not fit a bit part in a dice match, masturbatory ,circle- jerk marathon, to get illusions of temporary empowerment, and titles to wear next to their "good guy" badges.
Long Live Misanthropy
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#85675 - 03/16/05 03:14 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
Quote:


There is a consistent aura of retardedness that clings to them like stale cigarette smoke.




That's the greatest thing I've ever heard. You're my new hero.

"OMFG, I 4m l337 w17h my 13v31 12 5up3r 50rc3r3r!"

Fucking dolts.
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#85676 - 03/16/05 03:38 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10555
Loc: England
Whichever way you look at it, it just aint right!


These people must be stopped!


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#85677 - 03/16/05 03:53 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
DancingintheDark Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
This is really quite amusing. I must admit, I have always thought of serious D&D players to be "detached from reality" to some extent. This would probably be quite harmless in everyday society, but I can understand why the military would take a different view. And I doubt it is because the army generals and strategians feel threatened by the fantasy tactics of these would be wizards!
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#85678 - 03/16/05 04:13 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I used to play, a whiles back. As school became a bigger priority, I put it away. I still think about starting up again, when I have some free time and some people I think I could stand to play with.

See, most of the people who play this game are half-wits who live in an escapist fantasy world. Most.

On the other hand, most people who write "poetry" these days are also half-wits who live in an escapist fantasy world.

It all depends on who's playing, how they're playing, and what they're playing for. Not everyone who fits into a profile group is a stereotype. This kind of game draws a certain kind of loser, but that's not the only kind of person it can draw.

Actors go around for hours pretending to be other people. They do it privately and then they do it publically. Most do it for no money at all, in their spare time, because they like doing it. They do it because it's an exercise in experiencing perspectives, situations, and emotions other than what they would normally have "in real life" -- often because it involves fantasy elements (whether we're talking about Hamlet or No Exit). People read and write fiction for much the same reason (and roleplaying is sometimes called "collaborative fiction"), but drama is more involved, because you focus on the experience of being one character, and you say their dialogue. Now imagine people doing that privately, without props, mostly ad lib, with a focus on the lines and the plot development (rather than blocking, for example). Nothing inherently unhinged about that, now is there?

Now, if they become obsessed with the fantasy world, or with the stupid rules and all the numbers, then that becomes a problem. I can't stand those people. But they're not all there is to the player base of this kind of game. (Which I suspect is why about half of the people who go to the IDF shrinks are given okays for normal security clearance routines.)

The IDF's discrimination makes me wonder what kinds of other weirdos they're missing by not discriminating for other hobbies as well, or why all conscripts aren't given a psychological evaluation.


Edited by reprobate (03/16/05 05:47 PM)

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#85679 - 03/16/05 04:46 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: reprobate]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
I think the real point that can be distilled from both this and my recent post about Black Metal is: People are half-wits. If you judge activities by the calibre of the majority of people that partake in those activities then pretty much every hobby and interest is thoroughly damned.

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#85680 - 03/16/05 05:39 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
CoffinRust Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 2137
Loc: Alabama
Quote:

It all depends on who's playing, how they're playing, and what they're playing for. Not everyone who fits into a profile group is a stereotype. This kind of game draws a certain kind of loser, but that's not the only kind of person it can draw.



Thank you, Reprobate.

I actually only played D&D once in high school, only because my circle of friends and I preferred the two Vampire games, The Masquerade and especially The Dark Ages (it was always fun for each of us to flex our knowledge of history, which sometimes led to interesting debates).

Quote:

“They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence,” the army says.



Quote:

'The game indicates a weak personality'



Allow me to compare these quotes with my personal experience:

No one in my little group liked parties, did drugs or drank alcohol, due to lack of interest. All of the studying that high school required could be done before or after classes, and my friends and I each graduated with Advanced or Advanced with Honors Diplomas.

After school during the week we each indulged in our individual pursuits (mine involved reading non-school related books and drawing obsessively). I had an attractive girlfriend and frequently got laid. While I can’t speak for my friends concerning the latter, I do know that most of them maintained a girlfriend as well.

But on the weekends, playing RPGs was a lot of fun. Since we chose not to partake in typical teenage crap, and we managed to succeed in real-world endeavors just fine, playing RPGs was just a wonderful way to pass the time, have a ton of laughs and exercise the imagination (as well as my ego, since I’d draw everyone’s characters). When we weren’t playing RPGs, we were filming homemade horror movies and comedy sketches.

So, while I was never into D&D per se, I'm sure that the tired “weak-minded and pathetic” stereotype is applied to all RPG participants, but I can safely say that I’ve never fit it.



Addendum: I've never done LARP, all we ever played was Tabletop.


Edited by CoffinRust (03/16/05 10:55 PM)
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#85681 - 03/16/05 06:29 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
hickeyarmy Offline


Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 93
Loc: US
It is a stupid little game. I don't find the problem with it, but rather with the fantasyland-at-all-times types. I tried this D&D game once when I was 12 and I was absolutely unimpressed. Yet I can imagine quite a few other things I would be concerned about regarding military clearances beside this game. A good example in the US military is the general policy of reconsidering a security clearance if the holder is having a recent credit problem. That makes a bit more sense to me pragmatically. And I totally agree with reprobate that a psych evaluation for all incoming troops is the least they can do before putting powerul weaponry in their hands, instead of selectively choosing only the obviously "weird" guys. I would go further to say before one attains a supervisory rank such as sergeant, another psych evaluation should be done. But this is all military business, and it will do as it pleases.
In Iraq, most of the soldiers wasted their time with video games...but a few read quite often, played their guitars and drums, produced hilarious comic reality-show style videos, discussed all manner of philosophy and religion topics, studied politics, and of course talked with family and friends on the phone. Even a few of us read the works of LaVey (I was soon loaning out my books constantly)! And we didn't miss the lack of contributions by the video game guys at all!
Hail Satan!
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#85682 - 03/16/05 07:23 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Quote:

D&D people are usually identifiable on sight, and almost always within minutes of their mouths running. There is a consistent aura of retardedness that clings to them like stale cigarette smoke. Only they are unaware of it.




I'd say exactly the same thing about 99% of the Christian/Islamic types that I meet.

Wait, now that I think on it for about a second -- I'd say the same thing about 99% of the people I meet everyday, period.

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#85683 - 03/16/05 07:33 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Roen]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
>>I'd say exactly the same thing about 99% of the
>>Christian/Islamic types that I meet.

I'm sure it doesn't help that they too read stories about magic and weird creatures from a fantasy book, and are furthermore "detached from reality and suscepitble to influence"! I say if you're going to ban D&D, you have to ban the Bible too.
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#85684 - 03/16/05 07:53 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Bill_M]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
How awesome that would be, have a military official come out with the claim that, well, those religious types: "Military action requires swift, strong thinking, and Christians just don't have strong skills."
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#85685 - 03/16/05 10:34 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Bill_M]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Quote:

I'm sure it doesn't help that they too read stories about magic and weird creatures from a fantasy book, and are furthermore "detached from reality and susceptible to influence"! I say if you're going to ban D&D, you have to ban the Bible too.




Absolutely. Same traits, same treatment. It's only fair, after all.


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#85686 - 03/17/05 04:40 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Bill_M]
hickeyarmy Offline


Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 93
Loc: US
I second that. I don't have a real problem with the silly game, but the Bible and the Koran are fantasy books that have been at the root of many real horrors. D&D crazies usually just kill themselves anyway, right? But the crazies motivated by the "scriptures" tend to be more homicidal historically speaking.
Perhaps the IDF should deal with the more genuinely problematic books.
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#85687 - 03/17/05 05:06 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: hickeyarmy]
Creed Offline
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Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
Israel is a Jewish state...right?
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#85688 - 03/17/05 06:13 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Creed]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

Israel is a Jewish state...right?




*GROAN*...........Ya think? Country actually, I do believe it is a full fledge, rather powerful country.(With a little help from their friends...) *GROAN*
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#85689 - 03/17/05 06:20 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: dragondancer]
Creed Offline
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Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
My point was that the IDF probably has a better chance of having problems from over-zealous, fantasy roll players joining the army than christians or muslims.

And...I think Israel is a state.
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#85690 - 03/17/05 10:50 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Creed]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

My point was that the IDF probably has a better chance of having problems from over-zealous, fantasy roll players joining the army than christians or muslims.

And...I think Israel is a state.



I stand corrected, you are right, it is a state.

As to your point, I agree, but that is not what you said. Here is what you said.
Quote:

Israel is a Jewish state...right?



Sorry, but it sure looked like a question to me, not a point.


Hail Satan!


Edited by dragondancer (03/17/05 12:05 PM)
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"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

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#85691 - 03/17/05 12:05 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: dragondancer]
hickeyarmy Offline


Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 93
Loc: US
I was half being silly about the Bible and Koran being banned, in the same way I'm half joking when I say it is about time for the lions to get another large snack (televised, of course). I never support the actual destruction of historic relicts...not even the above mentioned ones. I was furious when the Taliban blew up the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan as well, even though I have no affinity with Buddhism, because it represented an important part of their history and a theological state decided it was just fine to erase such symbols of pre-Islamic times.
I am agreeing with Bill M here in the sense that Israel should be going after bigger things than fantasy game players. As much as D&D players usually are ridiculous to me, they could spend their energies better focusing on murderous religious zealots from the Big 3 religions.
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#85692 - 03/17/05 12:30 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Creed]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Quote:

My point was that the IDF probably has a better chance of having problems from over-zealous, fantasy roll players joining the army than christians or muslims.




(1) You think so, huh?

(2) It's "role-players" by the way. Just like actors (some of which also end up with problems seperating themselves from their "characters").

(3) You're arguing apples with oranges. Your corrected statement should be:

"...the IDF probably has a better chance of having problems from over-zealous fantasy role-players joining the army than over-zealous christians or over-zealous muslims."

OK, so at least we're now comparing the over-zealous fantasy types with the other over-zealous fantasy types...

At which point, I'd have to ask you when was the last time anyone invaded a country for "fantasy role-playing" reasons, or crashed an airplane into a large building, or blew themselves up in the middle of a crowded market, or denied basic human rights to an entire population of people, or systematically tortured and killed large numbers of "unbelievers"? Have fantasy role-players ever bombed abortion clinics? Or beaten children to death because they imagined the children were "possessed"? Or ordered the gang-rape of a woman because she violated one of their medieval-based tenets?

(4) *MY* point is: Weak-minded fools are undesirable and dangerous, no matter where the source of the fantasy comes from. And in reflection, religiously-motivated ones are often worse.

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#85693 - 03/17/05 12:46 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Roen]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
It is ridiculous to compare fantasy role-playing geeks to professional actors on any level.

I think the criticism is not that they are dangerous but that they are for the most part weak minded and averse to reality, read “Daffy.”

For instance, I would never professionally hire anyone exuding the D&D “vibe” – not even to mow my lawn.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85694 - 03/17/05 12:57 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
Professional actors are men and women who use their gift of emoting to earn a living. With a few obvious exceptions, most are perfectly candid, well-spoken, intelligent and active individuals after it.

For professional actors, there's a very solid divide between a character they play - even to the point of admirning or respecting that character - and who they are outside of it.

When you have serious D&D types running around, they seem to lose that. Now, there was once a time where it was rumored that CEO's and business types would do it, but that's old history. D&D is now a refuge for those that society spits out.

The reason the IDF feels the way they do isn't b/c the game is in and of itself wrong, but because it's symptomatic of someone who is generally of weak will and discernment.
_________________________
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#85695 - 03/17/05 02:41 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Rev. Svengali -- I don't want to continue to argue points I've already made -- and I think we're in complete agreement in that D&D people are normally nut-cases.

However, I've just got to point out that I did not say, or even imply, "professional" actors (by which I assume you mean those that act in feature films and broadway stage-actors). Professionals, to a certain degree, must be somewhat level-headed or wouldn't get hired for the high-profile jobs they do.

I didn't even say "most", or even "many". I merely said, "some". Yet, actors are role-players -- and on occasion there is an actor who takes his or her "role" a bit too seriously. I'd say the psychology behind this is similar to the fantasy role-players who allow their character persona to live beyond the "game". Comfortable lies, and all that.

However, since you brought up professional actors... I'll leave this thread with two names.

"Sean Young", and "Catwoman".


Edited by daemonmonke (03/17/05 04:13 PM)

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#85696 - 03/17/05 03:55 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Felstorm]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Also, whenever there's some anti-D&D sentiment, it's *usually* laced or topped with some anti-occultism or anti-LHP sentiment or motive, I've found, so I wonder if there's any of that at work here, if only subliminally. I also wonder how much of this anti-D&D sentiment has to do with people not being too keen on geeks and nerds in general. What's beneath the surface of this particular interest on the IDF's part, and why did they choose D&D in particular, I wonder?

I'm ambivalent about D&D. On one hand, I think it can promote imagination and creativity, and it can potentially give people (especially geeks) an opportunity to role-play situations and work through challenges as created by the game. It can allow one to cathartically express certain dreams, hang-ups, or desires, and it can allow one to potentially create their own Total Environment. But, on the other hand, it can detach people from reality, it can become addictive (as many things can, of course), and it can make someone's world a smaller place, so that their perspective on people and the world becomes more skewed. It can also allow escapists to escape *too much,* which is where the addiction comes in.

I've never really been into role-playing (it's too slow and mechanical for my taste, I don't know all the rules, and I don't feel I get to make enough decisions), but I've known plenty of people who are into it. Some of them are bright, creative, imaginative people, and they use D&D positively and productively, and others are total losers, and they use D&D (and Star Trek, Star Wars, and/or Lord of the Rings on the side, usually) as a drug. I think it depends on how much the individual plays it, why they play it, and what they intend to get out of it.

In any case, I think the IDF is barking up this tree the wrong way. If they plan to go after recruits with 'weak personalities,' they need to go after more people than just D&Ders. What about Christians, or Trekkies, or obsessive jocks, or...? I agree with Reprobate that there are lots of escapist twits and nutjobs who choose all kinds of hobbies and ideologies to further their nuttiness and escapism, but this may not be indicative of the true nature of those hobbies. I don't think D&D *alone* immediately indicates either an inherently strong or weak personality. If the IDF intends on asking the question about D&D, they need to explore a recruit's other qualities and beliefs and then look at the whole picture. (But then, that would take work and analysis...) I also agree with Reprobate that the IDF may be overlooking lots of other freaks who may be *more* worthy of supervision and concern, because it is spending its time examining D&Ders.
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"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85697 - 03/17/05 04:34 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Bugbear Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 38
If that guy in UVRAYs post showed up on my door, I'd cough up a fin to watch him mow my lawn.

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#85698 - 03/17/05 09:56 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Creed]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

Israel is a Jewish state...right?




The 52nd state maybe.

But seriously, it is amusing when you read about it and take it on face value, but Israel has one of the most technologically advanced and disciplined army in the world. Not to mention that they make their recruits undergo brutal physical, psychometric and personality evaluations. Take it from me as someone who did a years service in the IDF, they don't miss much in their evalutations. Having been in a state of war for the last 50+ years, they need to know exactly who they are sending to the forefront.

I'm certain there is more to what meets the eye if they have associated D&D with weak personalities. I don't know how seriously people take it abroad, but in Israel they take it REALLY seriously. They spend every waking moment thinking and planning their "alter-ego" to near obssesion. It wouldn't suprise me if one of these D&D guru's suddenly slipped into "character" in the middle of a patrol in Hamas infested Gaza and did something stupid.
_________________________
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#85699 - 03/18/05 12:04 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: reprobate]
fatebender Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Sin City
Quote:

See, most of the people who play this game are half-wits who live in an escapist fantasy world. Most.




Majority is a big factor in the Israeli Army, where service is mandatory for all citizens. They probably don't have time to make considerations for the random intelligent person into roleplaying.

Quote:

Now, if they become obsessed with the fantasy world, or with the stupid rules and all the numbers, then that becomes a problem. I can't stand those people. But they're not all there is to the player base of this kind of game.




This happens just as often (or more) with television and books. I've personally met several so-called incarnations of fictional characters, from Merlin or Aragorn, to Buffy the Vampire Slayer and a whole bunch of various "pagan gods." These people are just bored with life as they know it, and seek to add an extra dimension through assuming a fantasy persona. The same thing goes for conspiracy theorists, end times Christians, and other people who thrive on alternatives to what they consider the daily grind.
_________________________
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#85700 - 03/18/05 01:27 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
The Israeli, who believe in a Big Sky Daddy, and believe they are God's chosen people, are getting picky about being detached from reality. H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S!

Seems like Israel is just a legitimized cult compound to me.

EDIT: Also, aren't there enough psychological tests in existence for the IDF to filter out possible nutjobs without worrying about RPGs? Seems a tad redundant.

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#85701 - 03/18/05 02:22 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Noel]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Seems like Israel is just a legitimized cult compound to me.

That's a pretty broad statement. I've heard argruments to the contrary, emphasizing how actually secular the nation is. However, supposedly a semi-secret plan is laid out for the reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, so unless one is there and connected, who knows?
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#85702 - 03/18/05 05:51 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
That is just scary...stop the madness!
But seriously I used to role-play but I quit some time ago because some of these people have indeed 'lost contact'. People who dress up and role-play for hours on end just don't seem right to me really. It's escapism, if you're a total failure in life it's easy to make a new world and immerse yourself in it.
Me, I still like fantasy but I live in this world and not some created one. I change my surroundings to suit my needs, something these people will never learn. I have my own total-environment I live in but it is still located on this planet!
Some medication and/or therapy would be in order for most of these people. You really are very weak-minded if a game (yes it is a game kiddos!) detaches you from reality.

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#85703 - 03/18/05 06:33 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Noel]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

The Israeli, who believe in a Big Sky Daddy, and believe they are God's chosen people, are getting picky about being detached from reality. H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S!Seems like Israel is just a legitimized cult compound to me.




Considering about 70% of the population of Israel is non-practising/secular/aethist, and most of the minority who are religious don't get conscripted at all, that's a load of BS.

Quote:


EDIT: Also, aren't there enough psychological tests in existence for the IDF to filter out possible nutjobs without worrying about RPGs? Seems a tad redundant.




If you see my previous reply above, you would note that there are. Plenty.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85704 - 03/18/05 07:31 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

In any case, I think the IDF is barking up this tree the wrong way. If they plan to go after recruits with 'weak personalities,' they need to go after more people than just D&Ders.




Agreed.

Like I said before. I don't think it's D&D that's the problem. Stating flatly that someone that plays D&D, has a weak personality, smacks of a hasty generalisation.

I agree with Rev. Svengali on the point that I share a similar dislike, although not as profound, for the human element he is referring to. These types are most often found in comic book stores, have massive collections of action figures (fetiches), and usually smell strongly of flat Mountain Dew. In fact, you can find unkempt contemptable human oxygen thieves to hate, anywhere.

However, the aforementioned minority of players is not indicative of the majority of D&D players. Since the video game industry took hold, D&D, and similar games, can be both a creative, and profitable outlet, and have expanded far beyond the scope of these snot-nosed weekend woodland wizards.

And as far as comparing role-players to actors. Well it's not a far stretch, it's just that one group gets filmed and paid to pretend to be other people, and the other does it for recreation. Hell, the actor Vin Deisel, once played, and still plays, Dungeons and Dragons. Look's like all that D&D role-playing payed off... in the millions. In fact, I would encourage all actors to play RPG's. Perhaps it would improve the acting of some of these people that get paid millions, yet have all the acting ability of bowl of luke-warm oatmeal. I feel cheated everytime I see Keanu Reeves name in the credits of some movie. I can't help but know that somewhere someone had their valuable time wasted by that hack.

So I just can't buy the line that a psychologist, that didn't have an ulterior motive, would go so far as to broadbrush D&D players as simpletons. In fact, one could draw a simlarity between role-play and the magical rituals children engage in.

D&D is popular in the military because it doesn't require much more than a peice of paper and a pencil. You can take it with you, it's durable, doesn't take up much space, and it relieves stress.

Heh. I wonder if IDF D&D players use a dreidle to play their games...


Edited by Felstorm (03/18/05 07:38 AM)
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#85705 - 03/18/05 10:17 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Noel]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

EDIT: Also, aren't there enough psychological tests in existence for the IDF to filter out possible nutjobs without worrying about RPGs? Seems a tad redundant.




Maybe they found a consistent correlation.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
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#85706 - 03/18/05 10:43 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Ortrud Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 252
Loc: NYC
First of all, I'd like to thank Mr. Svengali for an excellent, thought provoking, and well-written post!

After reading everything, including the article in YnetNews, I can understand where the IDF is coming from. If it weren't for the nutjobs, the whole subject of D&D would probably never have arisen, it would simply be another game people play. However, if a kid is telling his recruiter that he's into D&D, without being asked, it does seem like a trait unbecoming in a soldier.

I would be interested to know how the subject is approached. If the recruiter asks "what kinds of games do you play in your spare time?", or "what are your hobbies"?, and the recruit answers D&D as being among them, then it is unfair to overreact.

On the other hand, if the recruit shows up wearing a cape and brandishing a broadsword, or,if D&D is his only pasttime, then the alarm should sound.

I believe the IDF has the right to be paranoid, though. I could never be in the military because I would question every rule and make my own decisions based on my conscience. This, coupled with a large amount of creative energy, and the strong tendency to dress in silly clothes, probably wouldn't fly in a military environment.

So, my reaction is : the IDF can screen recruits any way they choose, but labeling all D&D players as "weak-minded" is unfair. To me, "weak-minded" suggests that a person would follow orders easily. Isn't that what the military desires?

When it comes to D&D in the IDF, young recruits should follow the Rule :
IF THEY DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL!

HAIL SATAN! (But don't dress like Him in front of your recruiting officer)
Ortrud

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#85707 - 03/18/05 03:39 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Yeah, I heard D&D players draw a castle, not a house, in the House-Tree-Person Test.

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#85708 - 03/18/05 03:55 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Hazel Offline


Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I think it's a little closeminded to shut off an entire group of people, most of whom have jobs and are usually nice guys, because they have a hobby that requires a little more thought and imagination than model ship building.

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#85709 - 03/18/05 08:02 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Noel]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

Yeah, I heard D&D players draw a castle, not a house, in the House-Tree-Person Test.




Haha, or a Viking ship.

I would have to agree with Reverend Svengali, the IDF must have just found a very strong correlation between the D&D playing and qualities for a weak personality. Maybe it stems from the fact that the more... "dedicated" D&D players just aren't happy with themselves and would rather create a fantasy alter-ego than actually take responsibility and fix what they don't like or such.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85710 - 03/18/05 08:06 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Hazel]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

I think it's a little closeminded to shut off an entire group of people, most of whom have jobs and are usually nice guys, because they have a hobby that requires a little more thought and imagination than model ship building.




I don't think anyone is disputing that they are nice guys or not, or capable of earning a living - just that they aren't "Elite" material. When it comes to recruiting soldiers in a time of war, I say let the military do what they want. I'm sure most D&D players would rather be left alone in their rooms than drafted to the field anyway.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85711 - 03/18/05 10:09 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Gileyd]
Hazel Offline


Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to say that they aren't capable in times of stress and life-threatening danger? Hey, they simulate it enough in D&D games. If they don't meet the requirements to join the military, then fine. That's a good reason not to let them join the military. However, if they do, and they're not allowed to join simply because they play Dungeons and Dragons, then that simply is not right. Does playing D&D really impair someone from serving and protecting their country?

Also, in Israel, everyone joins the military. It's very close to college there. People who refuse to join are usually shunned or at least looked down upon.

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#85712 - 03/19/05 05:21 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Hazel]
RobertE Offline


Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 607
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to say that they aren't capable in times of stress and life-threatening danger?




This is just a personal opinion, but it is based upon my small amount of time within the US military: Any country's military has one obligation and objective, to destroy the enemy. It's that simple. Anything which they have deemed to consider a threat to their service members completing that objective, they try to limit as much as is possible so as not to endanger their members' lives unnecessarily.

The IDF, for whatever reasons, has deemed those that play D&D such an endangerment and has taken what they believe to be the necessary steps for correcting the situation.

Quote:

Does playing D&D really impair someone from serving and protecting their country?




No where in that article did it state that D&D players were denied the ability to serve and protect their state. It specifically states that they're kept from elite units and are considered unfit for anything but a low level security clearance.

The US military may deem fit to deny people anything but a low level clearance for nothing more than numerous speeding tickets or using recreational drugs a few times while an adolescent. Does either "really impair someone from serving and protecting their country?"

Quote:

Also, in Israel, everyone joins the military. It's very close to college there. People who refuse to join are usually shunned or at least looked down upon.




You may wish to read that other member's posts more closely, the person you're addressing has stated that they've already served time in the Israeli military. As such, I would take their viewpoint on the situation into consideration at a higher level then your own. And you may also wish to do the same.
_________________________
There is no Hank. You are Karl. Make your own list as you see fit. Eat as many wieners as you want, any way you want, even with a large group of consenting individuals if you want! Take pride in your wiener-eating. Make up large, elaborate ceremonies revolving around the kissing of your own ass, having them photographed and videotaped by the media if possible.

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#85713 - 03/19/05 11:21 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Hazel]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to say that they aren't capable in times of stress and life-threatening danger?




Who am I? I was a Sgt. 1st Class in the IDF and spend 11 months in Gaza getting my ass shot at by Hamas sharpshooters. Even so, I've never claimed to be an expert. I simply stated my opinion, which I believe to be a lot more informed than most.

Quote:

they simulate it enough in D&D games




You cannot seriously compare being under fire from Islamic Fundamentalists, not knowing if the house you're about to walk into is booby-traped, or if that man walking up to you ignoring your warnings has an explosive device strapped around his waist, to walking around a field with your friends waving plastic swords around pretending to hunt a dragon or whatever.

Quote:


TheyIf they don't meet the requirements to join the military, then fine. That's a good reason not to let them join the military. However, if they do, and they're not allowed to join simply because they play Dungeons and Dragons, then that simply is not right.




There is more than 1 question on the "Elite" criteria, and it sure as heck isn't "Do you play D&D?". Like has been stated many times, it's obviously a case of correlation.

Quote:


Also, in Israel, everyone joins the military. It's very close to college there. People who refuse to join are usually shunned or at least looked down upon.




Again, that's nonsense. I'm telling you that as an Israeli Citizen, an ex-IDF soldier and as someone who learnt how to use google.

There are countless reasons the IDF exempt people from joining, the most popular are if you are religious you can be exempt to study Torah, if you an Arab you can be exempt and if you had another member of your family killed in action you are exempt. Not too mention that more often than not, they even exempt people who simply stated they don't want to join - there are PLENTY of willing volunteers already. It costs Israel millions to invest in soldiers, nevermind Elites, and they don't need any citzen wasting their time if they don't want to be there.

Maybe you should do some research before embaressing yourself in future.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85714 - 03/19/05 11:24 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Gileyd]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8697
Thanks for the intelligent, informed, and first hand perspective.
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The thermal conductivity of helium II is greater than that of any other known substance, a million times that of helium I and hundred of times that of copper. This is because heat conduction occurs via a quantum mechanism.

Second sound is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which heat transfer occurs by wave-like motion, rather than by the usual mechanism of diffusion. Heat takes the place of pressure in normal sound waves. This leads to very high thermal conductivity. It's known as "second sound" because the wave motion of heat is similar to the propagation of sound in air.

Sound waves are fluctuations in the density of molecules in a substance; second sound waves are fluctuations in the density of phonons. Second sound can be observed in any system in which most phonon-phonon collisions conserve momentum. This occurs in superfluids and in dielectric crystals when Umklapp scattering is small.

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#85715 - 03/19/05 11:32 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Quaark]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

Thanks for the intelligent, informed, and first hand perspective.




My pleasure. Just want to pass on some information so everyone can make a more informed decision.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85716 - 03/19/05 12:40 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Gileyd]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Excellent post!

Thank You.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85717 - 03/19/05 01:41 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Gileyd]
Hazel Offline


Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I apologize for my ignorance.

However there is a difference between LARP and D&D. D&D players do not "walk around in a field with friends waving a plastic sword." That's LARPing.

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#85718 - 03/19/05 01:47 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Hazel]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Fantasy role playing is not training.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85719 - 03/20/05 01:45 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Citizen_Parker Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 217
Quote:

D&D people are usually identifiable on sight, and almost always within minutes of their mouths running. There is a consistent aura of retardedness that clings to them like stale cigarette smoke. Only they are unaware of it.




Sadly, you've described them exactly.

*Sigh* It's so hard to find a player who has an above minimum wage job, much less a decent human being you would consider spending more than five minutes with.

The mindless fly to the game, for some odd reason. Meanwhile the productive are usually far too busy to notice the game even exists.

There's probably a psychology paper in there somewhere, but no one who would benefit from such a thing would ever read it. To the rest, it would be too tedius to bother.
_________________________
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Parker

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#85720 - 03/21/05 03:17 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Dreamwalker Offline


Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1342
Loc: Colorado Springs
I have only held one published study on this topic in my hands; this is a list of psychological studies found on google. I think some of you may find it interesting, especially those of you interested in psychology papers. Some of the highlights that caught my eye: the tendency of the group, on average, to be more experimenting, liberal, and freethinking, the improvement in writing ability, vocabulary, and structural organization for both high and low level students, as well as increased socialization for those that were shy, a sense of cultural estrangement, a higher percentage of introverts, a higher rating of openness, and considerably less interest on the part of the gamers in mass media. I am not quoting any speculation on the reasons, nor quoting from studies that do not have a control group. This is an interesting link, however, if any of you wish to take a look.

The US military, in conjunction with the military of several other nations, is conducting a study using Neverwinter Nights, a computerized dungeons and dragons game to test its members on certain skills and abilities, including how to

Quote:

manipulate Decision quality, Task effectiveness, Adaptability, Workload, Time pressure and urgency, and Perceived degree of control, in addition to how to measure Decision making strategies, Communication patterns,
Situation assessment / awareness, Teamwork skills, and Role Assignments.




The main purpose of these tests is to measure cultural and personality-based decision making to facilitate teamwork and communications, although I couldn't help but notice other things tested for, including leadership ability.

Quote:

The common objective of these combined projects is to conduct multinational, collaborative experiments designed to capture knowledge about cultural factors for use in military modeling and simulation, system design, personnel selection, and officer training for the full range of Alliance military operations. Participation in this international research effort is open to NATO and Partners for Peace (PfP) nations. Current participation is:

  • Canada Canadian Forces Experimentation Center (CFEC)
  • Norway Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI)
  • Sweden Swedish Defence Research Establishment, Command and Control Division (FOI)
  • United Kingdom Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL)
  • United States US Army Research Laboratory
    US Army Research Institute (ARI)
    US Office of Naval Research (ONR)
    US Naval Air, Training Systems Division (NAVAIR ORL TSD)
  • NATO Allied Command Transformation HQ





The paper goes into great detail on why a computerized dungeons and dragons role-playing game was chosen as the medium. I find it interesting that it lowers the clearance of those in Israel, while over here it is considered a good gauge of many skills, and assesses levels of teamwork.

Myself, I just enjoy the game. It's an amusing diversion, something fun to do. I also go hiking. I go for long walks, I lift weights. I watch sunsets. I love to cook and bake. I enjoy time with my children. I like to read. I draw (ahem, not well, no talent for it, but I enjoy it) I sew, and have recently begun to learn quilting. I do lots of things; just because I enjoy role-playing games does not mean they encompass my entire life. There are many other gamers out there like me, who also have other interests and hobbies.

For the record, I don't smell of stale Mountain Dew (don't drink soda), nor cigarette smoke (I don't smoke.) I am productive; my live-in boyfriend (we've been together for about eight years now) is a network engineer/sys admin, and I am a stay-at-home mom.

My point? The 'gamer stereotype' is just that; a broad set of conceptions based on popular image. It's as silly to me to judge all gamers on this stereotype as it is to use the 'all Satanists wear black trenchcoats', or even 'all computer users are geeks' labels.

I am not the IDF, I don't know what kind of data they have, nor do I know why they would consider a gamer a security risk. It would be interesting to see what exactly they based their decision on.
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Sweetheart of Swank ~Demonic Creamsicle~

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#85721 - 03/23/05 02:12 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Felstorm]
blacksnow Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 16
There is a huge difference between actors and D&D players. Actor must control their mind at all time not to forget their text and be productive when many people around them just watch between two scenes or do only repetitive tasks which don't require a lot of attention. By their ability to perform while others don't have to, they prove without a doubt that they are elites. D&D is just a game, this is not a work, not even a constructive task, since they do nothing concrete. Maybe it helps them develop intellectual assets. But if they never do something concrete, how their would-be assets could help them in the real world? This is not a D&D players who wrote Harry Pother, this is a mother with no employement who decides to find a way to increase her income.

So I'm not surprised that the IDF look suspiciously at people who past their time killing dragons in their mind. Because this is an unfocused activity which aim at nothing but entertain the players. This is a kid game. Who send kids on a battle field?

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#85722 - 03/23/05 02:30 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: blacksnow]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:

Who send kids on a battle field?




Not enough time to answer that question...
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85723 - 03/23/05 02:38 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: blacksnow]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>Who send kids on a battle field?

Read some history or even take a look around you.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#85724 - 03/24/05 01:24 AM the first thought, but on second thought [Re: Svengali]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
My first thought would be, D&D its just a game, harmless. My second thought started with anyone I have ever known that played D&D. I have meet at least ten people who have, none of which are very capable of supporting themselves.

I also I have a question for those who believe that D&D is a sign of a psychological disorder. Would this extend to people who enjoy video games based from D&D? How about military games, or just video games in general?

I myself have put many hours into playing video games that where D&D based. I out grew the interest with the realization that there where better things to do. Besides keeping up with online games like Ever Quest really can take up your entire life.

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#85725 - 03/24/05 04:07 AM Re: the first thought, but on second thought [Re: VKat]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

My first thought would be, D&D its just a game, harmless. My second thought started with anyone I have ever known that played D&D. I have meet at least ten people who have, none of which are very capable of supporting themselves.

I also I have a question for those who believe that D&D is a sign of a psychological disorder. Would this extend to people who enjoy video games based from D&D? How about military games, or just video games in general?

I myself have put many hours into playing video games that where D&D based. I out grew the interest with the realization that there where better things to do. Besides keeping up with online games like Ever Quest really can take up your entire life.




It's called the Balance Factor.

Life is a game of juggling things. Your personal life, your professional life, your hobbies, your upkeep, your project, etc. Video games, D&D, all that is great. Just don't let it consume your life. Which shouldn't be a problem anyway considering present company. Indulgence without compulsion. Video games, drawing, hobbies, are what I keep myself occupied with. Video games inspire me and entertain me. My drawing is my creative outlet, and if I have a hankering to sniff some glue, I build a model. I live in a northern, rather inhospitible climate during the winter months. Without my pastimes and art, I'd probably go nuts. I just can't do the things I like to do outdoors because, well water freezes and it makes it real hard to swim in when it's like that.

Yes. Rev. Svengali's peeve people exist. Yes. They suck. But this is true of any individual that lacks balance and sucks at living.

The IDF making a broad brush generalisations of the D&D game and players, is silly and defies logic. It's more akin to the D&D Satan scare of the '80s than science. Yes the D&D creeps exist, and when it comes to the military, it's usually functional young adults that join the military, are then exposed to the game while in the military, and then leave the military with the hobby. I have yet to meet a comic book store headcase (reality detached herdlings) that has joined the military.

Some people paint little useless warplanes, tanks (my favorite), and ships. Some play D&D. And some complain on internet forums.

To each his own.

Context is everything.

Indulgence without compulsion.



Edited by Felstorm (03/24/05 04:12 AM)
_________________________
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Are You One of Us?

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#85726 - 03/24/05 04:10 AM Re: the first thought, but on second thought [Re: VKat]
HammerOfDoubt Offline


Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 479
Loc: Miami, FL
I think it is different with a video game, which is basically an interactive movie. I have played some D&D based video games and one of them is among my favorite games of all time.

LARD and Tabletop p[laying is different from a video game because theyrequire you to sort of create this fantasy world in your mind and get completely lost in your imagination.
Now, I am not saying imagination is bad, but sometimes being so lost in that mind state is not a good quality for military service. I am a writer. I spend a great deal of time in my imaginary world with imaginary people. I know damn well that I would be a horrible soldier because I get distracted so easily.

Also, as Svengali said, the common D&D player gives off this aura of retardedness. They spend lots of money on big fat rulebooks of all kinds, like white-light occultists with no results. I get the same feeling when I run into some of these little-kid Satanists who try to be super-spooky. It's like they are conforming to an idea of nonconformity.

A video game can be played without learning loads of crap or getting lost in a make-believe world. You do not have to pretend you are the person in the game to play. I have met few video gamers that give off that retardedness feel.

And also, remember what Gileyd said about how Israeli players take the games much more seriously than people do here. The IDF's decision seems alright to me.


Edited by HammerOfDoubt (03/24/05 04:21 AM)
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#85727 - 03/24/05 10:08 AM Re: the first thought, but on second thought [Re: VKat]
Gileyd Offline


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:



I also I have a question for those who believe that D&D is a sign of a psychological disorder.




Where did you get psychological disorder from?

We are saying they aren't Elite Unit material, not that they need to be locked up in asylum.

Playing video games and such is one thing, become obsessed with it is quite another. I play video games, but at no point do I actually believe I'm the character I'm playing, and when I switch off my PS2 I come back to the real world, unlike most D&D players I met who spend every waking minute thinking about D&D and their character. Their line of game and reality is almost non-existant.

It all comes down to indulgence VS compulsion, and I think most D&D players fall in the latter.
_________________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. - The Sith Code (George Lucas)

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#85728 - 05/27/06 05:31 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I have removed the original post that was here because I realise I have placed my opinion where it wasn't asked for. I know that is a violation of the 11 rules, I just didn't realise it when I was writing it. I got caught up and forgot that it is not my place to give my opinion where it is not asked for. I have learned and moved on.

Hail Satan!


Edited by lefthandbybirth (05/28/06 03:39 AM)

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#85729 - 05/28/06 03:21 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Mr_47]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12409
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Do you realize that you sound just like an addict who is explaining why he really has no problem with the addictive agent?

If you are not controlled by this issue, there is no need to be concerned with what others say about it.

Trust me. There will always be someone somewhere who will not like or agree with what you do.

If you enjoy your game then indugence not compulsion is an old Satanic adage.

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#85730 - 05/28/06 03:30 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Nemo]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
Sometimes I just get caught up that's all. I forget to remind myself that it is not directly related to me and should let it go. As I mentioned in another post on another topic thread, sometimes we need to be checked. I have been checked, and now I learn and move on. This is off topic, but I noticed in another thread, Nemo, you have lived beyond 100 years, that is quite the accomplishment! Congratulations!

Hail Satan!

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#85731 - 05/28/06 05:42 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Have you ever seen Israeli D&D players?
U have---- I wouldn’t recruit them AT ALL.
They are all fucking nuts. If you reach a state OF TELLING THE ARMY you are playing D&D it means it's a really major part of your life- and the D&D freaks I saw where really out of their minds.
And second of all- I don't know if you are aware of the situation of the army- it happens to be that every 18-year-old has a recruit-obligation, that means that there a about a million teenagers that need to get recruited- But the army doesn’t NEED that many… And on the other hand canceling the recruit-obligation will cause the army to be short of soldiers and in such a dangers country as Israel- that could be fatal. So the army just keeps really high standards and sifts as much as possible.
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#85732 - 05/28/06 10:34 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Nemo]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

If you are not controlled by this issue, there is no need to be concerned with what others say about it.

Trust me. There will always be someone somewhere who will not like or agree with what you do.

If you enjoy your game then indugence not compulsion is an old Satanic adage.




Wise words as usual Magister!

It all goes back to being your own God, and being mature and astute enough to be an individual.

For example, I play D&D, and have done on and off for the last 25 years(!), I also listen to a lot of Heavy Metal and tend to wear black, but I do not believe any of them make me more of a Satanist (or less of one for that matter!), it is simply a matter of degrees and intellegence.

If someone doesn't know where reality ends and fantasy begins, or the difference between indulgence and compulsion, I would doubt that person was a Satanist.
_________________________
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#85733 - 05/28/06 11:05 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: The_Lightning]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
If you reach a state OF TELLING THE ARMY you are playing D&D it means it's a really major part of your life

Now that, I think, is a very good point indeed.

If I were to ask someone, "Who are you? What do you do?" and things appearing at the front of the list had anything to do with role playing, video games, drugs, mall-ratting, or the like, I'd be seriously, seriously concerned.

I've know a few hardcore role players and avid, obsessed video game players --meeting new classmates, acquaintances of acquaintances, and friends of friends has allowed to meet even more of these types that I might've usually--I can honestly say that, in addition to being socially awkward and obsessed, they are incredibly, amazingly, extraordinarily BORING. They tell stories about their level 30 paladin or their level 12 night elf as if those things are real and relevant to their lives, and it's just plain pathetic and creepy. It becomes yet another kind of religious herdishness.

A friend of mine aptly noted that in the time a friend of his had spent building his character's skills on World of Warcraft, he could've been building real skills that are more than just numbers and statistics on a screen or on a card.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85734 - 05/28/06 01:58 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:

I can honestly say that, in addition to being socially awkward and obsessed, they are incredibly, amazingly, extraordinarily BORING. They tell stories about their level 30 paladin or their level 12 night elf as if those things are real and relevant to their lives, and it's just plain pathetic and creepy. It becomes yet another kind of religious herdishness.

A friend of mine aptly noted that in the time a friend of his had spent building his character's skills on World of Warcraft, he could've been building real skills that are more than just numbers and statistics on a screen or on a card.




LOl, sad but ture...
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#85735 - 05/28/06 03:08 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
Quote:

A friend of mine aptly noted that in the time a friend of his had spent building his character's skills on World of Warcraft, he could've been building real skills that are more than just numbers and statistics on a screen or on a card.




That same argument could be applied to a lot of things, like music for example. Not everyone is a musician, not everyone is a gamer, not everyone is an artist. That of course doesn't make them any less enjoyable for the individual though. In any of those things once you begin to delve so deeply into it that you begin to loose touch with reality, then there is a problem. It's a hobby, and most hobbies are just a form of mental masturbation anyway.
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The Temple | The Elite

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#85736 - 05/28/06 04:50 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Neko]
Wench Offline


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Tacoma, WA US
Very well spoken, Taboo. Anything done to excess will take over your life.

HS!

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#85737 - 05/28/06 04:54 PM Re: the first thought, but on second thought [Re: Gileyd]
Wench Offline


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Tacoma, WA US
Quote:


It all comes down to indulgence VS compulsion, and I think most D&D players fall in the latter.




That is an assumption based on your subjective experience. The actual number of D&D players is an unknown quantity. Therefore assumptions about an unknown quantity are invalid, as you obviously have not met "most" D&D players.

*chuckles shakes head*

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#85738 - 05/28/06 05:16 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Wench Offline


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Tacoma, WA US
Quote:

It is ridiculous to compare fantasy role-playing geeks to professional actors on any level.

I think the criticism is not that they are dangerous but that they are for the most part weak minded and averse to reality, read read “Daffy.”

For instance, I would never professionally hire anyone exuding the D&D “vibe” – not even to mow my lawn.




Ah....indulging in simplified nonfactual stereotyping. I really expected better. So are all satanists over achieving, rational 100% of the time, and never separating themselves from the outer world????

Glass Houses and all that...

If someone's life is so empty they fill it with games, oh well, Let them fail at life, more air for me to breathe.
If someone's life is enriched by occasional groups of friends rolling dice and laughing at each other's choices in the fantasy story? No harm there.

I thought the main point in being Elite was supposed to be that we all manifest our own world as we prefer, and are respected for it IF WE ARE NOT COMPULSIVE FOOLS.

I am quite alarmed at the deluge of stereotypes and mini-herd mentality in this forum concerning the subject of a stupid game.

HS!



edited to correct a spelling error


Edited by Wench (05/28/06 11:10 PM)

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#85739 - 05/28/06 05:42 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Neko]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:


That same argument could be applied to a lot of things, like music for example. Not everyone is a musician, not everyone is a gamer, not everyone is an artist. That of course doesn't make them any less enjoyable for the individual though. In any of those things once you begin to delve so deeply into it that you begin to loose touch with reality, then there is a problem. It's a hobby, and most hobbies are just a form of mental masturbation anyway.




A very smart, well-written response!
HS!
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There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#85740 - 05/28/06 10:07 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Neko]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
True indeed, although I think there is a notable difference.

The trouble with role-playing games, online or real world, is that they rely on statistics, ranks, and probabilities. Your ability to kill the monster is dependent upon your ability to obtain a level 12 attack, or supplement attacks with level 10 spells, or roll a 6 with a die, or that sort of thing. It doesn't matter if you actually have the fastest hand in the west, or perfect aim, what matters is if your rank is equal to or greater than the obstacle before you.

Even someone who is obsessed with music still goes away, hopefully, with an ability to play their instrument better, or sing better, or what have you. Someone who is obsessed with World of Warcraft maybe improves their depth perception, but all of their skills are expressed in terms of numbers alone, and you can earn those numbers by spending hour after hour playing the game. Your level 8 charisma means nothing if you actually are the most uncharismatic person to walk the planet in reality, but your ability to show off the skill you've obsessively worked at does hopefully count for something, even if that obsession is ultimately damaging or dangerous.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85741 - 05/29/06 12:44 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
Quote:

Even someone who is obsessed with music still goes away, hopefully, with an ability to play their instrument better, or sing better, or what have you. Someone who is obsessed with World of Warcraft maybe improves their depth perception, but all of their skills are expressed in terms of numbers alone, and you can earn those numbers by spending hour after hour playing the game. Your level 8 charisma means nothing if you actually are the most uncharismatic person to walk the planet in reality, but your ability to show off the skill you've obsessively worked at does hopefully count for something, even if that obsession is ultimately damaging or dangerous.




Sure, a skill, but to what purpose? To be better at the form of mental masturbation. What about the management, organizational, and communication abilities required to lead a raid consisting of 50 to 60 individuals to accomplish a rather difficult and complicated collective task? Now try doing that in real time with your only method of communication is typing (except those guilds who use team speak or some sort of variant). Now try doing that 3 times a week, and try to keep people motivated throughout the entire process. What does being able to do that say about an individuals charisma? Stratification exists even in MMORPG's.

Those aren't things to put down a resume, but your still developing skills that are applicable in real life, because your still dealing with other individuals, developing team building skills that are very usefull. It's all about perspective.

I am not putting down music or any other form of art, in fact quite the contrary, I love it. All I am saying is that there can be usefullness in all sorts of things with proper perspective, and not everything is everyones piece of cake.

_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#85742 - 05/29/06 01:17 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Neko]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Ah, team play---I'd forgotten about that.

Certainly, when I've played City of Villains, I've been on better teams, and worse teams. So, stratification does exist in that area.

I think a crucial factor is HOW people use the hobbies they engage in, and WHY they like them. The obsessive hardcore gamers I know do not play to sharpen their teamwork skills or improve their depth perception, rather, they are so obsessed with playing because they want to escape the outside world, in my view, and basically, they mentally masturbate, as you put it. I think some hobbies lend themselves more to negative, compulsive problems and obsessions, or are more likely to attract certain personality types, hence why I'm judgmental in favor of some hobbies and against others. But, the rules there always have exceptions that must be considered, certainly.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85743 - 05/29/06 02:07 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
Quote:

I think a crucial factor is HOW people use the hobbies they engage in, and WHY they like them.




Exactly. I think we are in agreement.

_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#85744 - 05/30/06 10:49 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
chaosjap Offline


Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 178
Loc: Las Islas Pilipinas
Then again...

Most D&D players have stopped playing regular D&D games and went to playing PC RPG games. It's much more visually entertaining than the former and less time consuming.

also

Others tend to explore new types of D&D-related games such as CCG's eg. Magic: The Gathering and Tabletop games such as Warhammer.
_________________________
Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing. - Muhammad Ali

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#85745 - 05/30/06 10:58 PM Fear of Girls [Re: Svengali]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
This should probably be in the humor section, but considering the topic I could not resist putting it here.

Fear of Girls
_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#85746 - 05/30/06 11:03 PM Re: Fear of Girls [Re: Neko]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
That is funny. I hate gamers like that. They are entirely too much for me.

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#85747 - 05/31/06 06:34 AM Re: Fear of Girls [Re: Mr_47]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

That is funny. I hate gamers like that. They are entirely too much for me.




Me too, and I play the bloody game!!
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#85748 - 05/31/06 06:36 AM Re: Fear of Girls [Re: DarkApollyon]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
As, do I. But only as far as the second edition, third got to technical for me.

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#85749 - 05/31/06 06:46 AM Re: Fear of Girls [Re: Mr_47]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

As, do I. But only as far as the second edition, third got to technical for me.




That's interesting as I hardly ever played the second edition, but got totally reinspired by the third (not sure why!), and have played that version ever since. Some of my friends have 'upgraded' to the 3.5 (!) edition, but I feel that is just a way of getting a rather large wad of cash out of you for very little new stuff, as it is almost identical with just the odd modification.

.......must stop now, I'm starting to sound like one of those geeks on the video!!!


Edited by DarkPagan (05/31/06 06:47 AM)

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#85750 - 05/31/06 06:47 AM Re: Fear of Girls [Re: DarkApollyon]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
That is the trade of marketing. Manufacturing the same shit over again and charging you more for it.

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#85751 - 06/03/06 07:38 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
There is nothing wrong with playing a game once in a while, but basing your life on it is not a good idea, and the D&D game is basically the kind of game that someone DOES base their life on. I think that basing your life on a game just weakens your individual character, because, instead of being who YOU are, you’re trying to be like a fictional character from a game. I was never interested in playing D&D, mainly because I just like to be ME all the time.

Also, thinking that you are using your imagination by playing this game is something that I don‘t really agree with. To me, if you buy the D&D game and all those books on how to play it, and you are using it, then you are not really using your imagination, per say; you’re just comprehending the imagination of the person who invented the game. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize that that is what you are doing. If you really want to use your own imagination in a game-playing way, you should invent your own games.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#85752 - 06/04/06 01:47 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Barb]
Necromatrix Offline


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Gulfport, MS
The main point, with any game what so ever, is entertainment. Now there are, of course, those who get “lost” in the games. I have met people like this. It is a waste really. However, if your mind, your ego is so fragile that it can be absorbed into a fantasy world, then great. Go play your game and rot in peace. That will be one less moron I have to deal with out in the real word. It is the same way I look at suicidal people, and drug abusers. Kill yourself so that I am not tempted to do it for you.
_________________________
Victims....Aren't we all?

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#85753 - 06/07/06 09:22 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
John Knotts Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 160
Loc: Toledo, Ohio
I know this belongs in the Humor section but I couldn't resist!


Get this video and more at MySpace.com

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#85754 - 06/08/06 10:39 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: John Knotts]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
That was an amusing video. The audio dialog is an old comedy piece from Dr. Demento's radio show. Classic stuff.

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#85755 - 06/08/06 11:58 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Barb]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I red flag anyone into this shit.

They have to have a LOT going for them to cancel out the retard points from being into this goofy crap.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85756 - 06/08/06 05:33 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
ninhursag_ki Offline


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 84
Loc: The Deep South
[['Simply detached from reality']]
** Based on personal encounters with gamers, I will agree with this. Which is not saying that all gamers are 'detached from reality', just that I havent met any that arent.

All the gamers I have ever encountered have a - what I call - gamer personality type. Its nothing specific, but I can spot one as soon as they start talking. Oddly, they seem to all talk alike, some even dress in like fashion, and all seem to share a similar worldview. One that I would certainly agree is "detached".

Now, before any gamers decide to get all uppity about my personal experience, let me say: Get over yourself. Its one opinion in a world full of opinions.

If you dont see this gamer personality in yourself, then maybe your should hang out more with non-gamers.


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#85757 - 06/09/06 08:26 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: ninhursag_ki]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Quote:

All the gamers I have ever encountered have a - what I call - gamer personality type. Its nothing specific, but I can spot one as soon as they start talking. Oddly, they seem to all talk alike, some even dress in like fashion, and all seem to share a similar worldview. One that I would certainly agree is "detached".




Agreed, when I was in college I knew a few of these gamers - the ones that were into Live Action Role Playing. I took a class with one of the females and she seemed like an intelligent woman (not to mention sexually appealing). We had lunch every now and then and when it was just us we would have intelligent discussions - but as soon as one of her friends showed up all they talked about was their LARP game, or fantasy characters, or something. After a while I just dropped my persuit of her because I was getting sick of it!

Some of them asked me to join them in Role play a couple of times. My response was always: "I don't pretend to be evil, I AM evil."
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#85758 - 06/09/06 04:26 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: False_Messiah78]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I'm a gamer and proud of it. But, there are gamers and then there are gamers ! I use gaming as a fun little escape from reality for a little while, but when the dice go away and the pens and paper are packed up it's back to the real world. The crazy gamer types are the ones that are rules obsessive, obnoxious, and so quarrelous that even other gamers can't take them. There's also a major difference between LARPers and PnP roleplayers. PnP roleplayers do most of the imagining in their heads. They don't dress up and act everything out. They tend to be more grounded than LARPers. They're both very different subcultures.

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#85759 - 06/10/06 07:09 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Charlotte Offline


Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 66
Loc: California
This may be an unpopular opinion, but in my experience 'gamers' are indeed strangely detached from reality. In my opinion, anyone over the age of fourteen who is seriously into D&D or LARP needs to find a new hobby (and in many cases a personality ).
_________________________
I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it. - Marilyn Monroe

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#85760 - 06/10/06 11:50 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
SonOfSaturn Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Next to a broken church.
Herein you will find truth~ and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist: but each must be recognized for what it is. ~~~ Indulgence . . . NOT compulsion ~~~ Thats what I think anyway.
_________________________
"there love will make them run faster" ~ Big Turtle ~

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#85761 - 07/18/06 01:02 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: SonOfSaturn]
SonOfSaturn Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Next to a broken church.
What I dont understand here is they continue to show the behavior even after they have been TOLD they could be penalized for it! I mean, if someone cant keep there own secrets, why would anyone tell them theirs? These folks must not realy want a security clearance. That or they are just selfdestructive idots.


Edited by SonOfSaturn (07/18/06 08:50 PM)
_________________________
"there love will make them run faster" ~ Big Turtle ~

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#85762 - 07/28/06 01:42 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Pardon me, Magister Svengali but I think I might disagree.
My opinion is that while statistically you may be speaking the truth, I think you are speaking very generally.

"It is a game". Games are entertainment. Those that understand that and do not pursue dragons in real life could possibly enjoy themselves by this sort of entertainment. Are we not here to enjoy our lives?

I remember what Herr Doktor said about toy trains, do you recall?

You probably are not aware of the sheer amount of research that went into their cross-indexing of myths from around the world. There are many mythological beasts described within that are quite accurate- even down to many details of the ancient Sumerians, Babylonians and countless others.

There are those that use any bit of information they can glean in the pursuit of truth. And research of myths and such, which many people are introduced to by this can lead to the left hand path, I will assert.

Are you not at least entertained by the Ancient Norse, describing the tree of life, of Woden, plucking his eye out for knowledge?

Imagination is so important to the development of the human mind. If you cannot imagine something in your mind, you cannot understand higher concepts- plain and simple. Einstein knew it "Imagination is more important than knowledge". It's true. Knowledge is trivia. Knowledge is illusion. Do we not pierce the veil of illusion cast on us by society in the guise of 'knowledge'? Is 'knowledge' what tells us Betsy Ross made the flag- wehn in truth, she did not?

Did not the ancient Egyptians, in their vast 'knowledge' of the dead- really just waste their time mummifieing bodies? Examples of what they thought was 'knowledge' which we now know is false.
And those that studied their lives away with this nonsense could not *imagine the higher concept- that it did not exist in the first place.

A computer expert must learn constantly- you must learn to throw away your old 'knowledge' inorder to make room for more- or you will be stuck in the past. You must be able to imagine higher concepts constantly- or you will fall behind.

Did you know that your mind cannot percieve the difference between reality and fantasy? Ever have your arm or leg move in conjunction with a dream you were having and wake you up? Or about waking up when you are falling? Your brain cannot tell the difference between things you imagined, and things you actually did, for the most part.

A guitar player who imagines playing guitar before he goes to sleep will get better- almost as if he really did it. These concepts become clear to you when you learn how the human mind learns.

They also used to say video games turned you into a retard. Truth is, the video game kids are the ones in the tanks now, protecting the US. That's complicated stuff you are teaching your brain to do.

Anyway, whether you care for fantasy or not, surely would not disrespect another's pursuit of happiness, no matter what that may be?

Hopefully I will not get banned for this.



Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 01:50 AM)
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85763 - 07/28/06 02:06 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Vin Diesel is a (so-called) actor. And he makes millions of dollars.

There are many more. They hide from people because of instant judgements similiar to the way Satanism is instantly judged by many and dismissed- based on what they think they know about it.

Vin Diesel had the cahonas to announce it to the world- the virtues of D&D. Why should he care- I'm sure you will agree he must be set for life, no matter what you think of his acting abilites, or his movies.

He is also very involved in the video game industry. Making lots of money doing so. He probably takes baths in it. I will wager he probably does not even mow his own lawn(s), let alone someone else's.

Maybe when the grass is too tall he just buys a new house (heh).

Anyway- are we to be impressed with the IDF?

Seems like they always need our help. Our military makes no such claims that I am aware of. In fact role-playing skills are desperately needed in covert ops.

Perhaps they spend too much time worrying about D&D and not enough time figuring out the real problems- like how to hold on to their inhospitable piece of land and not get blown up. But what do I know?


Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 04:09 AM)

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#85764 - 07/28/06 04:16 AM My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Svengali]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
...and the Sergeant of Recruitment rolled the pentagon dice and landed a low security clearance for the Blue-eyed Devil, the Angry Muslim, and the Covetous Jew...


Which dice calculates points for awareness, foresight, competence, potential in the real world, or sexual disinterest by nearly the entire female gender?


I honestly loved this game--for about 17 minutes when I was 14. I played it about a dozen times before I realized I was surrounded by nose-breathing chuckle-heads who would never get laid.

This actually surprised me, because I saw immediately--and still recognize that the basic logistical framework of the game is a statistical metaphor for the real world, and should therefore make one smarter and more capable at life. It is ironic as hell, I think, that pretty much everyone I've ever seen associated with these games have completely screwed up personalities--and comes off as a textbook role-model of what to avoid.

Speaking as a veteran (and having also applied to the IDF), I definitely would not want one of these people covering me.

Like Aleister Crowley's 28 Theorems--compared to everything else he wrote and everyone I've ever known who seems to have a deep interest in his writings, I see great value in the basic core framework--and then I start feeling the stupidity monster crawling up my spine and trying to burrow it's way through my brainstem, and I hit the fucking brakes and get the hell away from everything and everyone attached to it. Should a conversation accidentally get started--I usually exit with an urgency on the scale of an Ebola panic.

There are actually a lot of things like that in my life for some reason. I support the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum because I grew up in the neighborhood and I actually loved hanging out their as a child. I developed a real fetish for Egyptian aesthetics and have always been fascinated by their religion and history (to a lesser extent). To this day I have a statue of Thoth on my desk. I've made conversation with Rosicrucians before, though, and believe me--don't bother. They are worse than hippies. Like Crowley and D&D, they take a basic interesting idea and right out of the gate they turn completely ridiculous, and it's like you're talking to a person who's body is there, but who is re-entering a state of hypnosis from an unfinished session or something.

I feel the same way about renaissance fairs (an no--I refuse to call them Ren Faires). Most of the people are just ridiculous. I don't see why they don't just extract the basic worth from it all--the aesthetics of the clothing of the time period (they had some damn beautiful clothes), and perhaps learn to sword fight well--instead of just collecting them. It's still a bit outmoded, but I can respect an excellent sword fighter. I'm intending to learn fencing in the next year or so myself. I do give a lot of flexibility to this one area, however, due to the thoroughness and mastery I have witnessed in craftsmanship and my devotion to encapsulated environments. I'm more addressing the mentality of 95% of the people.

People who recognize and are curious about the basic worth of the core statistical and logistical framework of D&D, but don't want to turn into morons would do well to examine it all PRIVATELY (believe me, once you get a conversation with these people, they start to colonize and are harder to get rid of than xians or hippies). Glance through the the material and play with the dice for about an hour until you get the basic point of the math--and then THROW IT ALL AWAY and just hang on to the basic principle that situations are processes and not events, that they can be looked at in terms of attributes with a percentage value, and go do something else. There are a lot of things in the real world that use the same dynamics--but are real and neither turn one into a detached chuckle-head, nor stratify one with those who will never get laid.

When my Long-staff is charmed, I seek a woman and not a set of dice.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#85765 - 07/28/06 04:37 AM No. Not so. [Re: spyderJ]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

Anyway- are we to be impressed with the IDF?




The IDF has one of the most sophisticated intelligence networks in the entire world.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#85766 - 07/28/06 07:35 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: spyderJ]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
This thread was expressing my personal opinion, that D&D type people are, with a VERY few exceptions, retards.

Nothing in this thread has changed that opinion, only reinforced it.

You can study and appreciate history, mythology, whatever, without turning it into a fucking role playing experience.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#85767 - 07/28/06 09:22 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
You all just reminded me of this:

I was watching a DVD of a television show called "Robot Chicken" a few days ago. For those who don't know, the premise is that an evil scientist forces a resurrected chicken cyborg to watch television, and the show consists of the various television vignettes, all animated using stop-action with action figures, toys, and clay.

Anywho, in one of these short vignettes, we see a sci-fi convention. Long story short, a massive fight breaks out, and in the corner, one small nerd with glasses sees two wookies wailing on each other, and introduces himself, announcing that he is an expert at LARPing. One of the wookies picks him up by the scruff of the neck, and he screams, "Diamond fist!" and makes a half-hearted mime-swing for the wookie, who then punches him in the jewels and throws him to the ground. Classic. And probably true.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85768 - 07/28/06 09:38 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: spyderJ]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State

They also used to say video games turned you into a retard. Truth is, the video game kids are the ones in the tanks now, protecting the US. That's complicated stuff you are teaching your brain to do.


Once again, all things in context and in moderation. A bit of this or that can help you to build eye-hand coordination, or imagination, or depth perception. Too much of this or that can be detrimental and self-defeating.

It also depends on the value you ascribe to what you're doing. Deliberately training to build a practical skill is one thing, seeking entertainment is another, and trying to habitually escape from life is yet another.

The avid role-players and video-gamers I know tend to acquire one or two positive skills--and as they become more and more obsessed--many, many more bad characteristics and habits.

Anyway, whether you care for fantasy or not, surely would not disrespect another's pursuit of happiness, no matter what that may be?

If someone's method of entertainment is obnoxious, illegal, futile, addictive, annoying, and/or destructive, I'll be glad to note as such. Granted, if their activity is benign, I won't necessarily do anything to stop someone from pursuing their brand of happiness---role-players are free to role-play, for example--but that doesn't mean I personally approve, or that I won't judge them based on the choices they make and the things they do.

Hopefully I will not get banned for this.

Nope, you were civil, and you were just stating an opinion on an issue. No harm done.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85769 - 07/28/06 11:19 AM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: Svengali]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Oh wow lol.. that's just too good. I noticed they kept repeating themselves as well. One comment I want to make, because I am sure that most of the other comments I wanted to make have already been made.. has anyone seen the movie "Mazes and Monsters"? If you haven't.. go find it. I last found it at Wal-Mart in their cheap movie section. It's worth buying, just for the hilarity and the fact that people will blame bad things on anything that they don't understand. I will never know why and imagination is such a horrible thing. Thank you Svengali for yet another wonderfully entertaining and insightful post.

Hail!

Lillith
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85770 - 07/28/06 11:28 AM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Quiddity]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
OK, I'm sorry, I have to reply to this..

I have played D&D on and off for about 6 years now. I have also played other role-playing games (RPGs) as well. I play video games, I play Magic The Gathering, I watch Star Trek : TNG and cried when Troi and Riker got married. I am a geek. I am proud of being a geek. I am also intelligent, attractive and in no way in danger of not getting "laid". I think that with intelligence and the knowledge that wasting TOO much time and energy on such pursuits could severely impact any social life, you can still enjoy yourself. I enjoy escaping reality once in awhile, either through D&D or other RPGs or a good book, or T.V. or video games.. but I am still firmly planted in reality. I think you are right that the basics are useful, and that hanging around the "lives in his mom's basement and owns every D&D book since they came out in the 70s" kind of people is detrimental and really just a waste of time.. but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy yourself

I wanted to make sure you knew also, that I am not attacking you in any way (because it is so hard to hear tones or see facial expressions online) I just wanted to make the point that the stereotypical gamer dude living in his mom's basement, still a virgin at 30 something etc.. is not always how it is..

Hail!

Lillith
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85771 - 07/28/06 01:12 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

the premise is that an evil scientist forces a resurrected chicken cyborg to watch television




Mad scientist, an evil scientist would have turned the chiken into a cyborg death machine.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#85772 - 07/28/06 01:42 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Quiddity]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
And this is the opinion of most. This is your experience. What I tell you is that females enjoy fantasy as much- if not *more than men. This is witnessed in secret desires to be mastered- but not *hurt. I don't think you would say such things, if you had mastered this secret. Mastered the secrets of pleasing a woman.

It seems you do not get laid as much as i do (no disrespect). The women in your experience either have no imagination- are afaraid of being labeled- or just boring.

Throughout my life I have known and loved women who rival my own imagination. If you cannot experience that, I feel sorry for you- because for me it is perhaps the ultimate pleausure. I seek mental equals in my partnerships. If you live your life with a woman (or women) who has no imagination, what a boring life that must be, I should think.

Perhaps you did not read the Satanic Witch?
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85773 - 07/28/06 01:46 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Lillith]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Quote:

I am a geek. I am proud of being a geek. I am also intelligent, attractive and in no way in danger of not getting "laid".




Here, here.
The evidence speaks for itself- hah.
I rest my case.

And Lillith, you do sound hot. Your attitude is hot.
Don't ever let anyone tell you what you are- you tell them what you are.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85774 - 07/28/06 01:46 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Are you telling us you learned how to make love to a woman from playing Dungeons & Dragons?
_________________________
reprobate

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#85775 - 07/28/06 01:49 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: reprobate]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Quote:

Are you telling us you learned how to make love to a woman from playing Dungeons & Dragons?




Hah!
No I learned that from many years of practice.

I have never had a GF that did not want me back- and I have never been without one (for more than 6 months) since i was 13. Can you say the same?

If you do not want to please women, then by all means- keep assuming they have no imaginations, is all. Good luck to you in that endeavor.


Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 01:51 PM)
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#85776 - 07/28/06 01:51 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Soleil Noir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 357
Loc: Freudenabteilung
It's funny how you've now assumed that two people on this board don't get laid. Don't confuse the internet with real life and a dislike of D&D to having a lack of imagination, okay?

Oh shit, does this mean I don't get laid either?

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#85777 - 07/28/06 01:54 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Soleil Noir]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Perhaps. I say let's see what the women have to say.
I think that is proof in itself, do you not?

Anyway, I said 'as much'.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85778 - 07/28/06 01:55 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Soleil Noir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 357
Loc: Freudenabteilung
I am a woman and you've read what I had to say - is that "proof" enough?

Fear of Girls

Be careful, it's a bit painful to sit through.

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#85779 - 07/28/06 02:02 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
A gold cup for you, sir. This has got to be the weirdest non-sequitur I've seen on these forums.
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reprobate

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#85780 - 07/28/06 02:10 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
If you do not want to please women

What does that have to do with RPGs?

Seems like most of the Satanic men I know have never picked up a D&D rulebook yet most of them are doing just fine with their lady friends.

I'm reminded of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691B4GtdlKM
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85781 - 07/28/06 02:14 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: reprobate]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
Indeed.

"I play D&D to please women."

Pure gold.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85782 - 07/28/06 02:22 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Quote:

Quote:

I am a geek. I am proud of being a geek. I am also intelligent, attractive and in no way in danger of not getting "laid".




Here, here.
The evidence speaks for itself- hah.
I rest my case.

And Lillith, you do sound hot. Your attitude is hot.
Don't ever let anyone tell you what you are- you tell them what you are.




I prefer to let them find out who I am. What's the fun in telling them who I am?
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85783 - 07/28/06 02:25 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
StabAvery Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 714
Loc: michigan
Good clip leviathanXIII very funny.
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and coming soon... The Devil's Lab

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#85784 - 07/28/06 02:29 PM Re: IDF wise to D&D [Re: TrojZyr]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
I recall that episode. Was very funny and you are right, true as well. You can play all day at having "magickal powers" or a "strong attack" when in reality you can't even hit the broad side of a barn. I agree that there is VERY little practicality in role-playing. Entertainment is a different issue
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85785 - 07/28/06 02:55 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
I respectfully think you miss the point, LeviathanXIII.

I am talking about assuming women do not like D&D. I am talking about assuming women do not like fantasy- do not have imagination. If you think that- then you do not know women- plain and simple.

Women do in fact have imagination- do in fact enjoy playing D&D- more than men, in many cases and yes freakin hot ones too.

You wish you could know women like this. I do. The evidence speakes for itself in more ways than one.

Illith spoke for herself. She is a woman. You are not. Do you you choose to ignore the reality of this?

This is all I ask. It is not meant to be offensive. I do not question this I know it to be true. The evidence is all around me.

Do you not know about the man who showed us that housewives in fact masturbate in secret? He was master of statistics- nothing more. He was ostricized. This shattered the paradigm that women did not require stimulation as men do- did not require "fantasy". I am sure that you will agree that the public's assumption was quite incorrect. The statistics were more accurate than the public's commonly held beliefs. Although, statistically speaking, I think statistics are statistically inaccurate .

I beleive these old paradigms and falsehoods should be shattered- if you truly wish what you desire- if that is women.
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‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85786 - 07/28/06 02:59 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Soleil Noir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 357
Loc: Freudenabteilung
Quote:

Illith spoke for herself. She is a woman.




It seems you only feel this way about her because she agreed with you. What about the numerous other women who've posted on this topic and disagreed with you?

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#85787 - 07/28/06 03:05 PM Nerds Indeed ;> Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Soleil Noir]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
And I would say you are not a woman I would choose to be with.

And the nerds shall inherit the earth.
You called us nerds when you didn't know what a computer was.
Now what are we?

Nerds still perhaps- to those who label quickly what they do not understand based on what others tell them. Emulation.

'Nerds' indeed. That word gives me pleasure, as does the word, Satanist. I personally think the word Nerd is interchangeable with Sorcerer, if used the right context. I feel this is lost on many.

As a woman, enjoy what you will. There is another here that says you are not the only woman on earth with an opinion. Since this type of woman does in fact exist- I think your point is moot.


Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 03:12 PM)
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#85788 - 07/28/06 03:12 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
Look chief, you're the one missing the point.

It may seem arcane knowledge to you that women have an imagination, but for most of us this is pretty well known without anyone needing to fill us in. Women are responsible for writing any multitude of books, directing movies, and any other number of non-RPG manifestations of imagination. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that womens' brains aren't black holes.

I doubt anyone was not aware that there are female RPGers. However, the fact that there are says nothing at all of any significance.

You wish you could know women like this. I do. The evidence speakes for itself in more ways than one.

Why would I wish I could meet women like this? Those women don't interest me. Maybe they do you, which is fine, but you assume that the rest of us would get a hardon for a D&D playing female, which is not necessarily the case. I'd personally be inclined to dismiss such women from romantic consideration for my own reasons.

The evidence does indeed speak for itself. Nobody but you is making any effort to justify their hobbies or making claims about their love life. I don't see anyone but you bragging about their "imagined" sexual prowess.

My point was, since you missed it, that sex and D&D are as unrelated as any two topics can be (except maybe to someone with a strange fetish for this sort of thing) and I cannot begin to imagine why you have diverted a topic that had nothing to do with women into this. Even Quiddian's post had nothing to do with whether or not women can be RPG geeks. You immediately hopped in to announce that women play D&D and you think that's hot, and you're an RPG casanova. It's truly strange that you did that.

Seriously partner, put your pants back on. Nobody here has a "problem" with the fact that you play RPGs. Some may think it's a silly ass hobby, but they're entitled to their opinion just as you are yours. However, I promise you that nobody but you cares whether you wear a paladin helm or a leather thong in the sack, and probably nobody needs your lovemaking advice either.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85789 - 07/28/06 03:12 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Soleil Noir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 357
Loc: Freudenabteilung
Quote:

And I would say you are not a woman I would choose to be with.




That's great news!

Quote:

And the nerds shall inherit the earth.




Apparently the meek shall also inherit the earth, but you seem to be really big into fantasy, so I'm sure you really believe that's true!

Quote:

You called us nerds when you didn't know what a computer was.




I did?

Quote:

Now what are we?




Dorks.

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#85790 - 07/28/06 03:15 PM Fear Of Girls [Re: Quiddity]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
Your post is directly responsible for reminding me of the following short film. Note that it is a satire, and that anyone who loves their D&D so much that they're going to get all worked up over a little fun being poked at the D&D nerd stereotype, I guess you're being forewarned.

Fear of Girls

Now, no, I don't think that's how all D&D players are, but there is a little of the truth mixed in there. I've played D&D maybe once. It bored the crap out of me. If I wanted to use my "imagination" I'd go read a good book (like the fiction book I'm reading right now, "Life of Pi," very good little story, I might add). I have known people who are into role play games, and that's just fine and dandy for them. But when they get into it far enough that it becomes a major part of their lives... it just strikes me as being, well, stupid.

--and then I start feeling the stupidity monster crawling up my spine and trying to burrow it's way through my brainstem, and I hit the fucking brakes and get the hell away from everything and everyone attached to it.

I love this phrase. That's exactly how I feel when someone's trying to explain away the merits of Magic: The Gathering or Manga or something. I just would have never thought to put it into words in that way, but it describes the feeling perfectly.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85791 - 07/28/06 03:22 PM If more proof is needed, here it is. [Re: spyderJ]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

And this is the opinion of most. This is your experience. What I tell you is that females enjoy fantasy as much- if not *more than men. This is witnessed in secret desires to be mastered- but not *hurt. I don't think you would say such things, if you had mastered this secret. Mastered the secrets of pleasing a woman.

It seems you do not get laid as much as i do (no disrespect). The women in your experience either have no imagination- are afaraid of being labeled- or just boring.

Throughout my life I have known and loved women who rival my own imagination. If you cannot experience that, I feel sorry for you- because for me it is perhaps the ultimate pleausure. I seek mental equals in my partnerships. If you live your life with a woman (or women) who has no imagination, what a boring life that must be, I should think.

Perhaps you did not read the Satanic Witch?




It's been a long time since anyone tried to school me on woman pleasing and my own personal history--especially a total stranger on a discussion site.


I can't say I'm surprised by your far-reaching and unwarranted conjecture about a total stranger here--stated as fact.

If I needed proof that D&D detaches people from reality and that intelligence cannot be raised by a role of the dice, you've provided the best.

Thanks for the lesson. You really are an idiot.


_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#85792 - 07/28/06 03:30 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Yes, you are right- I should not seek to discuss such things.
What was I thinking?

I am a fool in more ways than one. Truly strange. You have a good point, LeviathanXIII- maybe you don't seek women like this. I will concede that I should not have made that statement.

What can i say? Certainly I will get banned if I keep disagreeing and trying to stimulate interesting conversation about subjects which the older members here feel have been decided. I do not know why I try to expand on subjects that seem to be narrowly contained- my mistake.

I apologize.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85793 - 07/28/06 03:33 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
You keep saying you're going to get banned when you disagree with someone as though this is a wish you have.

You're free to disagree politely and vigorously. Just don't be surprised if people disagree in return just as vigorously. Satanists are notoriously stubborn individualists.

Edit: I also wish to point out that topics don't always have to stay within narrow confines, we frequently go all over the place in threads here, but we at least try to follow a logical progression. You know, as in not going directly from "I think D&D is foolish" to "Goddamn my sexual powers are awesome!"


Edited by LeviathanXIII (07/28/06 03:36 PM)
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85794 - 07/28/06 03:34 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Nobody is getting worked up so far as I can tell. It's just a pleasant discussion- I thought.

Thank you so much- I was trying to think of the name of that movie. Yes, a good example of propaganda from the 80's (or late 70's) which is totally laughable and silly. Great stuff, amuses me to no end.
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#85795 - 07/28/06 03:35 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

What can i say? Certainly I will get banned if I keep disagreeing and trying to stimulate interesting conversation about subjects which the older members here feel have been decided. I do not know why I try to expand on subjects that seem to be narrowly contained- my mistake.




I don't think that conveying a passive-aggresive attitude is helping you out.
You just came off as a tempermental idiot.
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#85796 - 07/28/06 03:37 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
I just want to say something, since my name was added to this discussion. Maybe you should re-read my post, because I never once mentioned that I was a woman (not that it isn't obvious), I was merely stating my opinion as a "geek" and not bashing anyone for assuming women don't play RPGs.. I don't like to be brought into arguments that I am not part of already or didn't start myself. Thanks!

Hail!

Lillith
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85797 - 07/28/06 03:39 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: spyderJ]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
Uh, it's not propaganda, and it's only a year or two old, I believe. So I don't know what you're talking about.

It's a satire (read:humor) film on D&D nerds. If you're able to laugh at sterotype/satire humor, yeah, you'll find it funny. Something tells me, from now having read the defensiveness in your posts, you might not. But that wasn't my reason for posting it - I just think it's funny.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85798 - 07/28/06 03:45 PM WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Soleil Noir]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

And the nerds shall inherit the earth.




Wow. Did he seriously just try to redeem himself by bastardizing a slogan from the xian bible?

This is better than watching Family Guy.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#85799 - 07/28/06 03:46 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Soleil Noir]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
Dammit, maybe I should have read through the replies before posting, eh?

Sorry. Well, you get the honors of posting it first anyway. I thought of posting it last night, but was leaving and too lazy to find the URL. That's actually a pretty well done little film.

As for what women really think... yeah. I'm in the "I'd rather read a book" camp.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85800 - 07/28/06 03:47 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Understood, and thank you.

Personally- I think many D&D players are in fact retards- the stereotype is *more often correct. But this is like saying there are no ethnic Satanists.

To me- this 'simple discussion' is not quite so simple. And speaks about the philosohpies of Satanism in more ways than just saying, 'all d&d players are nerds and don't get laid and are weird'. I did not imagine that would be sentiment from the Cult Of The Underdog, is all.

It has layers to it- it is not just black and white.

For you it's so easy to say that this is such a trivial discussion. I don't see it that way. For me, it's much more complex. Trying to analyze all the angles.

Perhaps you are the one interjecting, strangely. Just my point of view.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85801 - 07/28/06 03:50 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
I think he may have been talking about the "mazes and monsters" movie with Tom Hanks in it that I mentioned.. but then again.. I could be wrong..

P.S. I thought it was funny too, it's sad that I actually know a few guys like that.. except it's MMORPGs now instead of D&D like in the old days.. (MMORPGs are things like World of WarCrack)
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85802 - 07/28/06 04:10 PM Fear Of Girls--"Eighth-level" pole-smokers [Re: LadyVera]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
That was a great film.
I think they ARE both going to hit "eighth level"--with eachother.

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#85803 - 07/28/06 04:13 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: Lillith]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Yes, the online people. I really do not understand why people pay money for imaginary objects they can use in Cyberspace that has a very limited lifespan. Playing these online games too much can lead to bills not getting paid and other things- that's foolish.

However, online communities are more similiar to the contained environments that Herr Doktor speaks about in the future- that we have now. An intelligent mind knows the difference between entertainment and reality. I never play these online games- i do not have time. Most of my time is spent making money- not enjoying entertainment- but there is a time when entertainment is a necessity. Balance.

Personally, my favs are games you can play and then be done. I don't have time to spend, 'building characters' in a fantasy world. If I could live forever I would enjoy those pleasures, though. Because they are pleasures- that's why millions of people do them and they make more money than movies. It is always pleasurable to live in a fantasy world- especially of your own creation.

So yes- these online guys- i agree with you. But I do *understand what the attraction is. I don't judge them for it, unless they are lazy slouches who do nothing but that. There are many of them.

If you are a teenage boy and you have a chance to kill dragons in a fantasy world, or watch TV, which is the better choice?

Many here would say, 'read a book'. Books get read and then you are done. Teenagers do not always have money to buy new ones (that they would like to read- that are interesting). What happens when all of those things that you should do beside are not available? Sit quietly- Or seek adventure, as all teenage boys crave?

They sort themselves out like anything else. Over time. Some become bums, others get rich designing video games for the masses.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85804 - 07/28/06 04:14 PM Re: WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Quiddity]
Soleil Noir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 357
Loc: Freudenabteilung
Quote:

This is better than watching Family Guy.





Just to bring some more humor to this thread, these clips are hilarious.

Reno 911 - Role Playing Game Nerds

and

Reno 911 - Busting a Dungeons and Dragons Nerd

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#85805 - 07/28/06 04:17 PM Re: WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Soleil Noir]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Those are the funniest! I love Reno 911!
I love Family Guy too. I have the whole first season.

But I dont' to seek knowldege in Family Guy, just like i do not seek knowledge in Coca Cola (which I love too).


Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 04:17 PM)
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85806 - 07/28/06 04:17 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: LadyVera]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
ok, I may sound contradictory, but I much prefer reading a good book and getting lost in the world the writer has created. I enjoy many different types of books and prefer reading over watching T.V. The point I was making earlier was just that D&D and other gamer type stuff is not always bad.. that's it..
Thanks

Hail!

Lillith
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85807 - 07/28/06 04:17 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
You're apparently taking personal opinions of members as something related to Church dogma. The Church of Satan has nothing whatsoever to say about what kind of games its members play in their spare time.

I happen to think most modern music if really fucking retarded. However, this is no reflection on the status of those who listen to it, maybe they see something in it I don't.

It shouldn't be any surprise that Satanists have strong opinions as individuals and those opinions wildy diverge. All such opinions are essentially trivial, because I am under no delusion that anyone gives a damn what I think of their music, they'll listen to it all the same whether Mr. Leviathan approves or not.

Take it from this angle: what if you convince me that D&D is amazingly intelligent and worthwhile, and I blow a thousand dollars stocking up on all the gear and network to find a whole group of people to come over and play it with me? What if I decide that I absolutely must date an RPGer? What have you personally gained from this? Even if you did convince me of this I wouldn't likely send you any cash or even a "thank you" card.

When I discuss my opinions it's because I enjoy doing so for its own sake, not because I have anything to prove. Maybe someone else shares my interest and wants to compare notes, maybe someone will play a fool and let me amuse myself with them. As often as not I mention things I find interesting to pass along the knowledge to others, such as a book recommendation. Favors for friends.

I'm not sure what you think it implies about Satanism that some of our members think RPGs are stupid. I am pretty sure though, that there's no especially clever insight to be had from blanket statements or incorrect inferences.

Just a thought. I doubt anyone would object if you'd merely said you like RPGs, see nothing wrong with playing them, and don't find it contrary to Satanism. That much is hard to argue against.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85808 - 07/28/06 04:20 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: Lillith]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
WarCrack... appropriate.

Sartori beat me to it though, she posted this before I did. That'll teach me to reply before reading all the others.

I will admit to being addicted to one, and only one game (or actually, the demo because the computer with the graphics card is only 900-odd MHz), and that is Battlefield 2. Well, maybe not addicted, I actually haven't played it in a couple weeks, but ya know. But that game is really more about hand/eye coordination and speed than anything. Thankfully most of the guys don't act like complete retards when I'm on mic as squad leader. (Once in a while you will come across the dork who's gotta try and impress you, and they're ALL shocked that I'm in my mid 20's. What can I say, I'm good at the game, and it's fun. )
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85809 - 07/28/06 04:32 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Point taken.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85810 - 07/28/06 04:41 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Chess Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
It seems to me you've had an eventful first couple of days here, Mr. SpyderJ.

In addition to all the wonderful stuff in this thread (I'm still trying to figure out exactly what inspired you to hijack the discussion into a hollow brag-fest about your alleged sex life and everyone else's alleged lack thereof), you have:


Performed "necromancy" on a long-dead thread;

Dispensed half-assed technical advice in response to a problem you obviously didn't even finish reading;

Gone off on a bizarre rant about secrecy and the invalidity of diagrams in response to a tech development story;

Treated us to a few "facts" you made up about spiders;

Gotten a post deleted by the moderators;

and finally,

Helpfully provided more technical advice which seems to consist of telling someone to put her hard disk in a CD-ROM drive.

Quote:

What can i say? Certainly I will get banned if I keep disagreeing and trying to stimulate interesting conversation about subjects which the older members here feel have been decided. I do not know why I try to expand on subjects that seem to be narrowly contained- my mistake.




Disagreement is fine, if you can back it up. Stimulating an interesting conversation is great. Expanding on subjects is one of the things discussion boards are for. But so far all you're doing is convincing everyone you're an idiot.

-Chess

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#85811 - 07/28/06 04:59 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
LeviatahnXIII.

Once again, you show your wisdom to us (that is not a snide remark). I am continually impressed with this- with you.

Perhaps this is the reason I post here. For lovely little gems of insight that you have- that I do not. Seriously. that is why I am here- intelligent people like you. I enjoy the discussion.

I don't know about the dogma thing. I study the philosophies of Anton La Vey. I live by them. Just trying to discuss this subject in an intelligent manner.

If this subject bored you all so much, you wouldn't feel the need to post here. Obviously, It is I who have struck a chord, I think. That so many people would be so quick to dismiss my many-faceted point of view interests me as well.

I do not beleive I am imprisoning anyone in this thread and forcing them to read it- i am ver surprised by all the reaction to what i say. I am not trying to annoy anyone- or convince anyone- i do not care if you beleive what i say about what I do- just as you mentioned you do not care what people say about you. But some people agree with me- and may find my insight refreshing.

Don't know what else to say about whether or not what I'm talking about is valid or not. To me, I think that is off-subject.

But then again, I am not a moderator here- you are. You make the rules. This is the only reason i mentioned getting banned in the first place. I'm not really getting very worked up about this- really you have no idea how insignificant this is to me. Not to belittle the board- i think Magister Ventrue is quite talented. But I don't take any of this discussion board so serious that I would ever get worked up about it.

I have enjoyed speaking about it with you, beleive it or not.
It is the only reason I am here- just as you said.
I like hearing your point of view. But I will disagree at every step if i feel the need- just as you will.

You have been here for many years, LevithanXIII. You have given me deep insight in the past and I always remember you for it. I am here to battle wits with you in a very friendly way- challenge your perceptions of what is- is that ok?

You do not have to participate if you do not want to- I am not making anyone- yet you feel the need here to oppose my ideas as well. That is fine with me. I welcome it. I appreciate your point of view. I will counter if I beleive something different, and i will tell you why- so you can make up your own mind. Nothing more. I do not preach. I only tell my perspective, and why.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85812 - 07/28/06 05:00 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I am talking about assuming women do not like D&D. I am talking about assuming women do not like fantasy- do not have imagination. If you think that- then you do not know women- plain and simple.




OOOOOOOOooooooooohhhhhhhhhh, so THAT's what you were getting at.

Well, neither Mr. Quiddity, nor myself, nor Warlock LeviathanXII, said any such thing.

Mr. Quiddity can no doubt speak for himself, but what I took him to be saying was that (most desirable) women don't like (stereotypical) role-playing game players. That's quite different from liking the games, see.

(As different as these propositions: a) women like cock; b) women like guys who like cock. Either or both may be true or false, but they're not the same thing.)

For my part, I played a number of games semi-regularly from the ages of 12 to 20 or so. I had a blast. And I've been thinking of getting back into it -- partly at the prompting of my girlfriend, who also used to play. But neither of us are the stereotype.

As for your general way of presenting yourself, I could give my opinion or my advice, but as you haven't asked I'll keep it to myself for now!
_________________________
reprobate

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#85813 - 07/28/06 05:09 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Quote:

Take it from this angle: what if you convince me that D&D is amazingly intelligent and worthwhile, and I blow a thousand dollars stocking up on all the gear and network to find a whole group of people to come over and play it with me? What if I decide that I absolutely must date an RPGer? What have you personally gained from this? Even if you did convince me of this I wouldn't likely send you any cash or even a "thank you" card.





You see how brilliant this statement is?
You have such insight- i will not deny. And I know this.

But I like conversation more than 'was this a cool movie?' 'yeah it was cool'.

Isn't that the point of this board?
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85814 - 07/28/06 05:32 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
I think if I made a book or movie recommendation I'd give it more credit than saying "It was cool."

I'd say a quick look at my post history (ignoring posts made for moderation purposes) would reveal my reasons for being here. I entirely agree that intelligent discussions can be worthwhile, and it is correct that I need not even participate in this one. You'll note I didn't involve myself in this thread until I became aware of this little sidetrack. My reasoning was that maybe I can get this back on track. Maybe I can't and I'll have to fix it the hard way.

The "point" of this message board is, at bottom line, to amuse its owner. What anyone else gets out of it is their business.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85815 - 07/28/06 05:57 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
I agree and well said.

I did not mean to infer you were one of saying 'it was cool'.
Actually- i find you to be one one the most stimulating conversationalists.

This side track is gone- unless someone else pursues it- won't be me. I think I may have taken that one as far as it will go anyway.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85816 - 07/28/06 06:00 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
I realize this post was more directed to an individual, and I'm sorry if I'm commiting a faux pas, but I just wanted to make a final comment on the whole... uh, whatever happened in this thread this morning thing.

I'm not a moderator, and definitely not one to do any "policing," but I think I can repeat what has already been stated by Warlock Leviathan and others: it's perfectly fine to share and debate opinions on this message board. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and for many Satanists is enjoyable and stimulating. But there's a difference between debating in a logical, polite manner and that is the ability to do it without feeling personally attacked or defensive, or feeling as though you must "come back" at someone in that manner.

If you've got a valid reason to debate an idea or opinion with someone here, it is basically understood that you can do so without expecting to get "banned" or attacked. But you can't get all defensive when they come back at you with their argument, which is apparently how you felt when this thread began. If you can't handle someone's opinion on something that is very sensitive to you personally, don't start a debate with them unless you can handle it without digressing into realms of subjective chest-thumping. Let their opinions be if that's the case. If you debate things you better be ready to be capable of handling things without feeling personally insulted.

Jumping from talking about how the stereotype of a RPG, D&D or LARP player being that they may lack sexual prowess to pulling out the measuring tape and chest thumping about your masculinity is somewhat of an example. It pays to be able to kind of hover and look at things objectively for a second before automatically leaping into defensive mode. It's good to give things a little thought before you dive into posting. And nobody's perfect - I post things that are a bit more harsh or contradictory than I intend on occasion. That's okay. It happens. Relax and move on. You're talking like you've been in these forums for years and you've only been here a day. Chill out and take it easy... this isn't a race.

I am here to battle wits with you in a very friendly way- challenge your perceptions of what is- is that ok?

Not to answer the question, but to pose some reading material: Blanche Barton's essay Sycophants Unite!, which someone (and I can't for the life of me remember who, my apologies) pointed out to a new member of the board several weeks ago on the issue of "debate." It was wonderful because I hadn't re-read that essay in more than a year, and it's a great refresher/reminder of when a "debate" starts to go downhill and becomes something that isn't constructive or useful.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85817 - 07/28/06 06:03 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
You must be looking at the publishing date of the DVD, is all i can imagine. I saw it as a kid. It's a very famous movie. Perhaps it is new to you?

Unless this is a remake you are speaking of.

You can find it on Wikipedia- go have a look.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85818 - 07/28/06 06:06 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: reprobate]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:

(most desirable) women don't like (stereotypical) role-playing game players



true.
Quote:

a) women like cock;



most do. true.
Quote:

b) women like guys who like cock



so true!

About the general topic: I actually do remember drawing physical pleasure out of a male role player:
I met him in some role-players-convention (I was a Rocky Horror freak) and he didn't stop telling everybody that he is "the great dragon lord, who fears nothing and feels no pain". He was about 18- and was dead serious about his powers too. He wouldn't stop rambling about it, and kept trying to come onto a friend of mine.
After a while I just got up and slapped him real hard across the face.
"Still feel no pain..?"
It was a pleasure. I will never forget the delight of making him shut up.

Frankly now, I know not all people who define themselves as "role players" are absorbed dorks. There are some extremely rare standard deviations.. that I've yet to come across…

p.s
There may indeed be a connection between role playing and sex- but no, not D&D-wise.
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#85819 - 07/28/06 06:07 PM Re: WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Quiddity]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
And the nerds shall inherit the earth.



Wow. Did he seriously just try to redeem himself by bastardizing a slogan from the xian bible?


Well, there is that saying that you'd better be nice to nerds, because you'll work for one someday. I think nerds will inherit many important parts of industry, and will be instrumental in helping to solve many of society's future problems.

But, like anyone, a nerd has to build useful skills, and then channel them well. Being geeky or nerdy is no guarantee you'll win the day, just like being a jock is no guarantee, either. And sometimes, you have to be willing to adopt new behaviors or patterns, in order to succeed in the larger society. I certainly had to, as someone who might be called a geek or nerd, probably both.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85820 - 07/28/06 06:10 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: The_Lightning]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
The phenomenon you've just described--basically, bragging obnoxiously and absurdly---is typically born out of pure insecurity, mixed with social incompetence. People like that (and not just role-players, mind you) get so isolated in their own little world, and understand in their heart of hearts that the world is passing them by, so they develop a self-protecting delusion and advertise it grandly. Eventually, they mostly come to believe it, though they still realize deep down that it's a sham.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85821 - 07/28/06 06:10 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: The_Lightning]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Oh man that is so funny.


Edited by spyderJ (07/28/06 06:11 PM)
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85822 - 07/28/06 06:16 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: TrojZyr]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Perhaps you are right.
Really wasn't bragging- I was saying proof is in the pudding. Sometimes, theere is a fine line between bragging and describing yourself.

I will think about what you said though- I find it very intersting and think about whether I am a victim of this disease. I often wonder about this ('why I feel the need')- I will consider your perspective and think on it much.

Thank you for the insight. Very intelligently spoken.
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85823 - 07/28/06 06:25 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: TrojZyr]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
You are perfectly right, and I've known that… it's extremely, pathetically obvious..
But I also know that I can explain *any* sort of losers with a proper psychoanalysis. That will bring me to Nirvana since I'll "be at one with all" and "be full of compassion" (or something like that), but I sortta' figured Buddhism wasn't for me.. (I am here, am I not?).
I despise mercy (towards adults) and understanding losers becomes an interest of mine only as a psychological profession... I'll be merciful if you pay me enough.



I wonder when this thread is going to end..
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#85824 - 07/28/06 06:26 PM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: spyderJ]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
In the end, one of the central questions you gotta ask yourself if you are truly satisfied with life, and typically, that comes from meeting your goals, fulfilling your dreams, and being able to deal with challenges.

If you truly feel confident and at peace in yourself, you won't have to resort to obnoxious snobbery---"I'm the Dragon Lord, I feel no pain!" Of course, it's fine to describe yourself, and to announce your accomplishments appropriately, but obviously, there's a difference between doing that, and just being an empty can that rattles loudly.

If you enjoy roleplaying, then do some roleplaying. I dink around online, watch TV, and play video games now and again, some days more than others. Just don't let that activity, its subculture, or its people run your life or stand in the way of being successful, wise, grounded, and genuinely long-term happy. If you aren't spending your overall resources or your time well, deep down, you'll come to know it, and it'll start to hurt.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#85825 - 07/28/06 06:40 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: spyderJ]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
You're obviously confused.

You think the film I posted is the 1981 film "Monsters and Mazes." It is not. It is the same student-type satire/spoof film about the stereotype D&D nerd entitled "Fear of Girls" that Satori also posted (before me) in this thread.

Just a little clarification. I hope this thread dies soon.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85826 - 07/28/06 07:14 PM Re: WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Soleil Noir]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
>>Reno 911 - Role Playing Game Nerds

Thanks for the clips. Patton Oswald is easily one of the best stand-ups of today.

>>Fear of Girls [posted again]

I always thought this title made as much sense as calling a Tupperware party "fear of boys".
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#85827 - 07/28/06 08:31 PM Re: WTF? "The meek shall inherit the earth" [Re: Soleil Noir]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Here's another one.

I love these clips.
_________________________
reprobate

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#85828 - 07/29/06 12:13 AM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
That movie looks familiar. It's almost as if I have seen it posted before, in a thread about D&D...

_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#85829 - 07/29/06 12:55 AM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: Neko]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW


And that's all I have to say about that.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85830 - 07/29/06 10:12 AM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Umm, Just out of curiosity.. if you want this thread to die so much, then why are you on here? I would figure if you didn't like the thread, you wouldn't be reading/posting on it. Just wondering.. that's all. No disrespect meant.. thanks

Hail!

Lillith
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#85831 - 07/29/06 11:14 AM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: Lillith]
LadyVera Offline


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Pacific NW
Look, for future reference, I was one: doing that to be facetious, and two: people do that on occasion in forums if they've gone weary of the posts in the thread, okay? This is a common thing on message boards. It is not anything new or unusual. And TYPICALLY it's to signal that the thread is about to die, but since you are struggling to comprehend that, I'm having to make yet another post to explain. But mostly I like that image ( ) and take any opportunity to throw it in there. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to understand.

You don't need to respond to me either. This thread has run its damn course. Hopefully.
_________________________
"Those lucky enough to build a business out of a dream owe it to the world to be the caretakers of dreams. It is the duty of those who, through ingenuity, insight and hard work are able to make a dream a reality, to defend this right. To continue to build upon their ideas." -- Dr. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche

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#85832 - 07/29/06 03:52 PM Re: Fear Of Girls [Re: LadyVera]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
To really kill a thread, try posting things that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation, that will likely get it locked.

OH NO! GODZILLA!
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#85833 - 07/30/06 08:04 AM Re: My Charmed Long-staff [Re: LadyVera]
spyderJ Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Surf City USA
Well i was leaving but...
Your points are all taken well. And so eloquently spoken.

However, I still maintain I am misunderstood. I am guilty of it being late at night and typing fast, i will admit.

When I wrote 'battle of wits with you' and all that- I misspoke myself. I didn't even mean to challenge him- so obviously I did not choose the right words.

I meant to say that the things i say sometimes are designed to make you think. They challenge your perceptions- or at least, try to. I did not mean 'hey let's battle'. It is unfortunate that my train of thought made we write in that same spot about how that is my job and i battle techs constantly- which I do.

Ultimately, if I challenge LXIII, I lose, don't I? So- perhaps you understand how my ideas and words ran into each other in a very unfortunate way for me- this is evidenced by my intro being locked. But's it's no big deal. My fault- I can live with that.

The link you sent talks about many things- I am none of these. I am not lot lice, i am not a sycophant.

But I am tired.

Your comment about measuring tape is quite amusing. I still maintain that I am speaking from experience. If I were a plumber, and i said I could tell you didn't know anything about plumbing by what you say, I don't think you would have taken offense.

This subject should not be taboo. The Satanic Witch is full of information on how to seduce men. I don't think it's out of bounds to talk about sex with Satanists. Could it be that you are taking offense because you *think i am being macho?

Really- my relationships last because I truly *love women. I do not use them and kick them out. My relationships are with beautiful women that last for years and years. and yes- i have had many- because I know what they like- and is there any other way to say that?

I hardly have any one-night stands at all. I avoid them- i do not want STDs, and other reasons.

Could it be that your perception of my conversation is completed clouded by the first sentence?

I feel that while you are busy thinking about what i said about how much sex i get- I think you fail to notice that i am defending you (not that you need defending) and your gender against people who would not give you credit to even have imagination. I love women. My mother is a woman. I would not debase them. I feel you miss the point of what I was saying.

Can you see what I mean about perspective? (that's a rhetorical question)

I was very suprised more Satanic women did not come out and say 'why would you assume we don't like that', even if you didn't like it.

Trying to convey a bit of wisdom with Q about the ladies- and you all thought I was being overly mean. Truth is, what i would have told him, may have helped him out a lot- *if he wanted to hear it. He may have told me to screw. I wished someone would have told me when i was younger, though- i would have even done better- and been happier. This probably sounds like bragging too- i will stop right here...

My last ditch effort for you all to maybe see I am not such a bad guy after all (as i leave for a very long time). L8


Edited by spyderJ (07/30/06 08:38 AM)
_________________________
‡§ףּλĐΣЯ‡ Disclaimer: The views expressed by me may not be the same views expressed by any other member of the planet Earth. Just pretend it says, 'I think' in front of everything I say, and don't try to take anything too seriously.

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#85834 - 07/30/06 10:22 AM Greased-up SpiderJ contest [Re: spyderJ]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

Ultimately, if I challenge LXIII, I lose, don't I? So- perhaps you understand how my ideas and words ran into each other in a very unfortunate way for me- this is evidenced by my intro being locked. But's it's no big deal. My fault- I can live with that.




No way. You don't squirm away that easily.

I am not attempting to speak with any authority here. I have none. It just seems like this really should be said, though. You've blown horrendous chunks and it's your own fault. You are not alone in this, but I see you are isolating yourself by making excuses and attempting to talk your way out of difficulties you created and now are insinuating them to be a result of despotism.

I have never known LeviathanXIII to use his moderator status without merit, or to constrict conversations to his personal benefit, as you suggest. On the contrary, I have known him to be consistently and extremely restrained in enforcement, and never seen him ban or lock threads for trivial reasons--although quick to act when the situation demands it. When he takes administrative action, he does so with clear judgement and usually states his reasons. I've also known him to be quite reasonable, when a person is big enough to back off of a misconceived line of argument.

Ironically, I find your part in the course of this thread to have gone quite parallel to "gamer mentality."

Good luck.
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Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#85835 - 08/01/06 05:05 PM Old - and quite false - news [Re: Svengali]
Myster_Tale Offline


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Israel
First of all, something was apparently lost in the translation: the original story was refering to RD&D (which are the people running around with swords "re-enacting" scenes from LOTR and Forgotten Realms novels).

Secondly, the military as a whole doesn't grant different security clearances to Role-Players (including tabletop D&D players). I know quite a few D&D players with a rather high security clearance.

I can understand the origins for the story, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to involve quite a few LARPers around here in Israel (who have a seriously large population of jackasses and weirdoes I've ever seen for myself). Yes, there are quite a few of those who fit the description of "detached from reality". But there are also many others who don't and happen to yet serve the Armed Forces in various positions, without their security clearance affected by their hobbies.

Not to mention, there are the tabletop Role-Players (a few guys and girls getting together for a game of creativity, imagination and a quite social activity... not... *pointing at the sword clashers* THAT), quite a different population than most LARPers. I've met several who work as Lawyers, Doctors and serve as Officers in the military.
This story, if anything, is victim to ignorance. And the common view of contemporary Role-Players is quite an obsolete stereotype. I believe long time D&D (and other RPGs) player and fan, Mark Sinclair Vincent (better known by his stage name as Vin Diesel) is evidence to this.

Finally - I don't understand what your opinion of D&D (just D&D or are there any other Role-Playing games included?) stems from, but apparently mine is quite different.
I happen to list Role-Playing games (D&D included) in my hobbies, and I don't think I've ever came off as detached or as an anti-social person, now have I?

Bashing D&D players according to common stereotypes isn't very far from claiming it the "seed of the devil" (apparently, christians don't like RPGs - maybe it's the whole creativity, open-mindedness and imagination parts about RPGs that scare them!)

People! it's just a hobby, for crying out loud...
One I even forgot to mention in my personal interviews in the military.

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#85836 - 08/05/06 06:46 PM Baby, You Mean The World Of Warcraft To Me [Re: spyderJ]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

Are you telling us you learned how to make love to a woman from playing Dungeons & Dragons?




I know I'm backtracking, but this story is too appropriate to not post for this.


Baby, You Mean The World Of Warcraft To Me

April 19, 2006 | Issue 42•16
THE ONION

Come on, honey, why do you have to be like that? You know that you're my Elven princess. My one and only. I would dare say that there is no one in all the realm who doesn't know of our love. I have sung your praises from the mouth of the Shadowthread Cave to the Stranglethorn Vale of the Eastern Kingdoms. I've introduced you to my comrades-in-arms in the Ulster guild, and they all accept you as kin.

And now you want to dissolve the greatest love ever to brighten my basement?

When we met, I was looking for a group fit to take the Zul'Gurub instance. But as I stocked up on provisions at the convenience store before my quest, and our eyes locked, I realized that I was not looking for a group, I was looking for love, and I found it in you. You are the sun, the moon, the Cinderhide Armsplints of the Monkey. There is so much we have to offer one another. Unfailing loyalty, a Strength of 250, someone who can go out for snacks in the heat of battle. Can't you see we're made for each other?

Darling, no orc can keep me from you. I would make my way into the heart of Moonglade and fight an army of trolls just to be by your side. I would go up against Varimathras, the ruler of the Undead himself, if he so much as hinted that he was a danger to you. Make no mistake, I would get aggro on anyone who would threaten you.

This is, of course, provided the system is not down due to a faulty patch.

Don't you see that I did it all for you? My love for you exceeds Level 60, higher than anyone thought possible in this fantastic computer universe. My spirit soars when you are near. You restore my mana with a kiss. I even named my epic mount after you. Her name is Helen, and her hair shimmers in the sunlight, and together we ride forward into destiny.

I would climb the highest peak of Mount Hyjal to toil for 100 days and 100 nights in the mines in order to extract the precious ore so that I may fashion you a necklace of the finest thorium. My warrior, Hammuster, devoted his game's life to the professions of mining and smithing just so that I might accomplish that very thing. All you need do is join me in the WoW and hold the necklace up to the virtual sun. Then you may see the efforts I have expended to create this thing of beauty for you. The dishes can wait until tomorrow.

Helen, my mage, when I was ganked by a lowly rogue from Tennessee in the Caverns of Time and stripped of my treasured belongings, I rose from the grave with one purpose in mind. I had to be resurrected, not to seek revenge, but to return to you.

There is no other way to put it: You take my breath bar away.

Why do we need to go out to have fun? Everything we could possibly want is right in WoW. Fine dining, theater, romantic sunsets—they're all there. The outside world just costs money, and I don't have a magic breastplate to protect me from people's stares. Come with me so I can treat you like the princess you are.

Please, baby, if you leave, you will increase by 32 percent the chance of doing direct damage to my heart. Please reconsider.
© Copyright 2006, Onion, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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