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Questions #98214
05/07/05 08:32 AM
05/07/05 08:32 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
patbateman Offline OP
patbateman  Offline OP

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
Hello,
I am a card-carrying member of the COS and I wish to hear opinions of other Satanists in regard to some questions I have about Satanism.
Now, I believe that Satanism is the religion for me, but I do not
a) Agree with everything LaVey had to say.
and
b) I do not think that just because LaVey said it, that it must be taken as "gospel". Everyone talks shit sometimes, no matter who they are.

I don't think the eugenics thing would ever work simply because of one simple fact: Talented people are not guaranteed to have talented kids.
Also...
1. Irresponsible people who get sterilised (as Lavey says they whould in "Satan Speaks") may turn their lives around later and then we may miss out on great talent being born.
2. We need mundane people to do shitwork so it's no use just having the cream people and nobody else
3. The system would be controlled according to prejudices held by the current beauracuracy. What if YOU get stopped from having a kid?

Also, we need to rethink stratification. Yeah cut off welfare for those who don't want to work but what about the hard workers who are stuck in between jobs, the fact that there's no enough jobs to go round and people spending time studying so their contributiuon to society will be all the greater later on?
And cutting off foreign aid? What about the people getting fucked over by corrupt governments? Deal with the politicians in true harsh Satanic fashion but help the people help themselves then if they get themselves in the shit let them cop it.
Anyway, if this is un-Satanic, I'll hang up my sigil of Baphomet medallion, though it will hurt me to do so.
Daniel

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98215
05/07/05 08:45 AM
05/07/05 08:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 95
Philippines
scoundrel Offline
scoundrel  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 95
Philippines
Thats it!

Do your thing, while I do mine.
Everyone has different interests.
Everyone has different gauge of pleasure.
If that maximizes your pleasure, then go on with it!

The Satanic Bible tells us not to be a sort of "gospel" you think it is.
It targets indulgence.
Freedom and not compulsion.
For because self-preservation is the highest law!

Anyway, I will look forward for what have you said.
Hail Satan!


" Nothing is more despicable than a coward except perhaps the man places his faith in a coward.." -Dantes' Inferno "Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise, for only a fool will think it is happiness." -Bertrand Russell
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98216
05/07/05 09:12 AM
05/07/05 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,223
S
sCara Offline
sCara  Offline
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,223
Quote:

Anyway, if this is un-Satanic, I'll hang up my sigil of Baphomet medallion, though it will hurt me to do so.
Daniel




Why would it be unSatanic? You are just stating your opinions in regards to a few things. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean you/he/she/it/they is the be-all-end-all-epitome of Satanic, same if there is disagreement. As long as there is the absolute and honest resonance with the key points and descriptives of Satanism, discuss personal opinions/nitpick this-or-that-from-page-so-and-so with others that are or call themselves Satanists all you like. Also, why would you define yourself as a Satanist based on the feedback you receive in this topic?

Answers. [Re: patbateman] #98217
05/07/05 09:14 AM
05/07/05 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,236
Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister
Nemo  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,236
Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
First, if you are a "card-carrying member of the Church of Satan" that is not yet reflected here in your title.

Agreement with the principles of Satanism as written by Dr. LaVey does not require agreement with his every casual opinion, I would suggest.

Only a fool would assume otherwise.

However the principles are critical and the opinions Dr. LaVey had were derived from those principles.

Therefore you are treading on thin ice since it is probable that the creater of the Church of Satan might have an edge over your opinion - in my opinion.

Talented people are more likely to have talented kids because talents are often inherited.

Morons are welcome to turn their lives around ... I just wish that they were sterilized first because usually they don't!

Robots have been replacing people for about sixty years now. Mundane people are dispensible in that sense.

And stratification means having control over the bureauracracy and not being a peon who is supressed by it.

The "hard workers who are stuck between jobs" neeed to plan ahead or suffer. That is what stratification is all about! If someone is dumb then they get hurt. Welcome to reality.

And foreign aid? I have only one statement: Might is right. Why? Because it is what is real.

You have many popular views that will make you welcome amongst "caring" people.

However Satanism is realism, not "caring".

You seem to be missing that.

Sorry for the harsh reminder.

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98218
05/07/05 09:51 AM
05/07/05 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,474
Minnesota.
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member
Felstorm  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,474
Minnesota.
Quote:

Hello, I am a card-carrying member of the COS.




Prove it. Magister Ventrue would be more than happy to turn your handle blue for you.

Quote:

Now, I believe that Satanism is the religion for me, but I do not

a) Agree with everything LaVey had to say.

and

b) I do not think that just because LaVey said it, that it must be taken as "gospel". Everyone talks shit sometimes, no matter who they are.




I don't recall in any of Anton LaVey's writings where he was "talking shit", or making himself out to be something other than the grandiose person that he was.

If you don't like eugenics. Fine. Good for you. Go be a Carebear. Meanwhile the human species, and the now self-aware DNA molecule will inevitably find a way to live longer, and seek perfection. As is the way this universe operates. Always seeking the most simple solution.

Human beings should strive to eliminate as many meatheads as possible. A common military expression is, you can only move as fast as the slowest man. Crackheads, uneducated dropouts, welfare leeches, and other social canker sores need to be eliminated or neutralised in some fashion to prevent advancement.

Sterlisation of wastrels is the "nice" and "humane" thing to do.

Me. I'd just load them all onto a barge and float them out to sea, and then sink it. Sharks need to eat too you know. Where's the welfare program for them?


"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98219
05/07/05 11:01 AM
05/07/05 11:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,770
Here.
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock
RandomStranger  Offline
CoS Warlock

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,770
Here.
Quote:

Also, we need to rethink stratification.




Rethink it in favor of what?? Egalitarianism? From what you
posted, is economic status the most important factor of
stratification to you? There are many factors of unemployment
that affect short-run numbers such as frictional, structural and
cyclical unemployment but in the Big Picture the unemployment
numbers (at least in the US) hover around the natural rate.
This is just a plain and simple fact of having an economy.

Someone's unemployed? They didn't realise that the economy
is a harsh filter through which we all must pass? They didn't
save money "just in case" there was major suckage on the
financial front? Whoops! Not My Problem.

Quote:

What about the people getting fucked over by corrupt governments?




With all due respect, why do you care? Do you work on
Capitol Hill? Are you a policy writer? If you are a Satanist,
as you say that you are, why aren't you more concerned with
what YOU are doing rather than what government is fucking
whom? Don't you have anything [remotely] interesting that
you are doing for yourself that might be of interest to people
here?

Quote:

Deal with the politicians in true harsh Satanic fashion but help the people help themselves




What is it exactly you think you mean you thought you meant?

Again, with all due respect: Why does any of this matter? It
sounds to me as if you are taking the side of rewarding the "victim
mentality" rather than lauding those who take responsibility
for making their lives better.

Last edited by RandomStranger; 05/07/05 11:01 AM.




Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98220
05/07/05 11:33 AM
05/07/05 11:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,335
USA
Mr. Hyde Offline
CoS Warlock
Mr. Hyde  Offline
CoS Warlock

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,335
USA
Hello,
I am a card-carrying member of the COS and I wish to hear opinions of other Satanists in regard to some questions I have about Satanism.


I'm with everyone else who has replied. Don't announce you're a Member unless you're willing to prove that by Magister Ventrue.

Now, I believe that Satanism is the religion for me, but I do not
a) Agree with everything LaVey had to say.
and
b) I do not think that just because LaVey said it, that it must be taken as "gospel". Everyone talks shit sometimes, no matter who they are.


No one said you have to agree with everything that LaVey wrote. However, I'm with Nemo on this one in that all of the writings of LaVey are in some way based on the basic principles of Satanism. As such, think hard about what's actually being said in any of these writings and how they relate to what you know of Satanism.

I don't think the eugenics thing would ever work simply because of one simple fact: Talented people are not guaranteed to have talented kids.

Not guaranteed but, as science has proven, more likely. Talent and intelligence are often inherited traits.

Also...
1. Irresponsible people who get sterilized (as LaVey says they whould in "Satan Speaks") may turn their lives around later and then we may miss out on great talent being born.


I've been around a lot of irresponsible people. 99% of them never turn their shit around. If we miss out on that one that would have by sterilizing them beforehand, it's worth it to filter out the majority that wouldn't.

2. We need mundane people to do shitwork so it's no use just having the cream people and nobody else

Machines are becoming more advanced every day. Sooner or later, to even hold a job, these mundane creatures are going to have to rise above or be lost.

3. The system would be controlled according to prejudices held by the current beauracuracy. What if YOU get stopped from having a kid?

I don't see how this makes any difference. Strong, creative and talented people are just that, regardless of the system they're living in. If you mean we'd be discriminated against as Satanists, that's a moot point. With white-light religions in control, the eugenics would probably not be instated anyway. If they were and Satanism was deemed an unwanted factor in the eugenic plan, Satanists would just make the fact of their religion unknown.

Also, we need to rethink stratification. Yeah cut off welfare for those who don't want to work but what about the hard workers who are stuck in between jobs, the fact that there's no enough jobs to go round and people spending time studying so their contributiuon to society will be all the greater later on?

I've been in both situations. I've been between jobs and I've been back to college. In both cases, I planned beforehand so as not to end up at the whim of welfare. It's not that hard. If you aren't responsible enough to plan ahead, you should suffer a bit. It may make you more aware next go 'round.

And cutting off foreign aid? What about the people getting fucked over by corrupt governments? Deal with the politicians in true harsh Satanic fashion but help the people help themselves then if they get themselves in the shit let them cop it.

Does the term "Might is Right" sound familiar? I don't think I have to say any more than that one this one...or rather, I shouldn't have to.

My thought is that you need to study a bit more on the basic tenets of Satanism. As Nemo stated, we're not a "caring" group by our very nature. Stratification is one of the main goals of the Church and most of the points you touch on are in opposition to this.

Think about it, Daniel.


Hail Satan!

Warlock Hyde
Media Contact/Warlock - Church of Satan
Question for You [Re: patbateman] #98221
05/07/05 12:15 PM
05/07/05 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,412
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess
LKRice  Offline

CoS Priestess

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,412
Where's your introduction?


Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue
Re: Question for You [Re: LKRice] #98222
05/07/05 12:20 PM
05/07/05 12:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
CWH Offline
CoS Member
CWH  Offline
CoS Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
Not to defend this guy, but, I think this was his into, just placed in the wrong section.

Re: Question for You [Re: CWH] #98223
05/07/05 12:22 PM
05/07/05 12:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,412
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess
LKRice  Offline

CoS Priestess

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,412
Doesn't matter. He can write another one in the proper forum like he's supposed to.


Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98224
05/07/05 12:26 PM
05/07/05 12:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 248
NJ
Warlock Rikard Offline
CoS Warlock
Warlock Rikard  Offline
CoS Warlock

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 248
NJ
Although you have only written a few sentences in your first post, what you have stated screams volumes about you.

It seems that you should never have acquired your medallion in the first place.

Consider the following:

“The philosophy presented in it (The Satanic Bible) is an integrated whole, not a smorgasbord from which one can pick and choose. It is meant only for a select few who are epicurean, pragmatic, worldly, atheistic, fiercely individualistic, materialistic, rational, and darkly poetic. There may be fellow travelers – atheists, misanthropes, humanists, freethinkers – who see only a partial reflection of themselves in this showstone. Satanism may thus attract these types in some ways, but ultimately it is not for them.” - Magus Peter H. Gilmore, from the New Introduction in The Satanic Bible

“There’s nothing to fear in The Satanic Bible, for it will not transform you into something that you are not. It cannot convert you, or persuade you in directions not inherent in your nature. It’s power lies in its ability to show you what you are through your reaction to its contents. Embrace them, and your life shall gain a new focus, for you will have sharpened your understanding of yourself, and you will see more clearly how you differ from those around you. Reject some or all of these hardnosed postulates, and you are free to move on towards whatever other spiritual or conceptual haven that provides you with satisfaction.” - Magus Peter H. Gilmore, from the New Introduction in The Satanic Bible


Screamin Demon Fiery Foods:
Purveyors of the Most Sinister Hot Sauces & Fiery Foods Since 2001
www.screamindemonfieryfoods.com
Re: Question for You [Re: LKRice] #98225
05/07/05 12:33 PM
05/07/05 12:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
CWH Offline
CoS Member
CWH  Offline
CoS Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
Very well,

I can only wish that he will correct himself, for his sake.

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98226
05/07/05 01:40 PM
05/07/05 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 892
UK
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>
Cholinergic  Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 892
UK
Regarding welfare:

Currently i am myself on benefits as i am a student. After completing my education i intend to get a job and repay via taxes. Helping out people who will be able to contribute at a later stage can have several advantages to society. However, those who are simply unwilling to work and just leech off the state should never be granted benefits in the first place.

Regarding eugenics:
My personal view on this is that the strong will be strong regardless of whether or not there are weaker creatures around.

As for being unsatanic:
If you agree with the core principles of satanism and follow them in your life, you are a satanist. If you disagree with certain opinions from other satanists - who cares?
However, you should think about why you disagree. If your reasons are not completely logical then perhaps you need to rethink the title of Satanist.


Yes, I named myself after a neurotransmitter
I agree with you! [Re: patbateman] #98227
05/07/05 02:18 PM
05/07/05 02:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,930
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend
Quaark  Offline

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Posts: 8,930
You should hang up your Baphomet.

Since Satanism is based soley upon reality as it actually is, and always has been and always will be, it is not surprising that anyone with a bit of intelligence would find themselves in agreement with at least some aspects of it.

The same thing put another way: anyone who disagreed with all aspects of Satanism would have to be bereft of all intelligence and have no connection with reality whatsoever.

Such people exist. They are called "altruistic egalitarian spiritual humanitarians".

So, to the degree you find yourself in accord with Satanism, exactly as it is spelled out by Doktor LaVey in The Satanic Bible, you demonstrate basic intelligence.

To the degree you disagree with the core principles - Might is Right, Stratification, Responsibility to the Responsible, etc - you are simply not a Satanist. By definition.

You yourself have spelled out where and how much you disagree with these core principles - not "us".

You yourself have disqualified yourself from being able to call yourself a Satanist - not "us".

So, I agree with you - you should hang up your Baphomet.

Finally, just as an afterthought, consider the possibility that the issues you are worked up over - foreign aid, eugenics, etc, are all issues that you will realistically never have any power to affect in the real world anyway, thus constitute little more than idle gossip practically speaking.

The fact that you disagree with the Satanic stance on these issues speaks only to your status as a Satanist - not to the actual outcome of Big Issues in The Real World.

That will be determined by - guess what - Might is Right and Stratification, etc.



What you have power over - Satanist or not - is your own individual specific life.

Just a thought.

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98228
05/07/05 03:29 PM
05/07/05 03:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 733
A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
I
IronCrafter Offline
IronCrafter  Offline
I

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 733
A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
A.) Dr. LaVey set out a framework that clearly defines to an actual Satanist who they are. If these principles don't speak to your core,you aren't.

B.) The Doktor said a lot of things. A lot of it tongue in cheek. Just because he was having a good time with humor in places, doesn't invalidate his system of thought. The basic foundation holds together nicely,thank you very much.

I think some irresponsible people can become responsible-given the right motivations. I also think we should not be breeding defectives and the mentally retarded back into the gene pool. Strains don't always breed true-but removing obvious bad factors cannot help but improve the overall genotypes.

The current beauracracy is not going to limit ANYONE having kids, any MORON can breed-so it's a moot point. They won't even castrate serial rapists who ASK to be.

We need ROBOTS and artificial entities to do the gruntwork so we can reduce the overall population..Freeing up critical resources for the enjoyment and advancement of an improved species. Not more mouths to feed of lessr quality-and allowing an undermining subversive element to disrupt that.

Stratification is the natural process of those who can, doing. And those who cannot, suffering the consequences. It's difficult for me to pity underachievers.

If you look at the track record of foreign aid-it's not beneficial in the returns it gives. Origionally it was set up to prevent communist infiltration-that threat has now dissipated. The bottom line does not add up-in fact we are supporting third world countries that turn around later,and cut our throats economically.

This does not equal an enlightened or practical return on an investment.

I would say that if you cannot look at these matters objectively-yes, hang it up.

The choice is always yours.


"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98229
05/07/05 03:38 PM
05/07/05 03:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest
Hagen von Tronje  Offline

CoS Priest

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
You're welcome to think whatever you like politically.

However, I ask you this: do you think you can do anything at all to alter the fact that the world is corrupt, brutal, and most people don't make the cut? If not, why lose sleep over it?

With any individual issue, I suggest applying the maxim "Responsibility to the responsible." Simple as that.

The way you phrase "rethink stratification" is perhaps ambiguous. How so? Do you merely like socialist politics, or do you think along egalatarian lines?

More importantly:

What do you disagree with? Just political issues, or something more? Dr. LaVey had his political ideas, but he did not ever make politics a part of Church policy.

Have you discerned between personal opinions and Church doctrines in Dr. LaVey's writing? If you severely disagree with Church doctrines, as opposed to opinions, you are perhaps looking in the wrong place.

Also, I would suggest that you not imply that Dr. LaVey "talks shit sometimes, no matter who they are." Regardless of how you mean it, that is a vulgar expression to use in reference to someone you proclaim to respect (we think). Try and have a bit more class.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98230
05/07/05 04:58 PM
05/07/05 04:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 158
Near Costa Mesa, California
VKat Offline
VKat  Offline

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 158
Near Costa Mesa, California
Quote:

1. Irresponsible people who get sterilised (as Lavey says they whould in "Satan Speaks") may turn their lives around later and then we may miss out on great talent being born.




I have a real problem with this statement. Why? I have watched what my generation has done to their children. (Makes me want to beat them with a stick.)

For instance, I know this thing I went to high school with. She had a baby girl at 15. This baby girl got drug from party to party. She witnessed her mom having sex with people, and shooting drugs into her vein. I saw this little girl at four, she looked like she had been living in a garbage can. Mean while her moma thought that drugs where good birth control. I am sure she had several miscarriages, but one stuck. This baby boy was born addicted. Taken away from his mother at birth, she lost all rights even visitation. No one could do anything tell after the baby was born. I wished they could have stuck her in a box for the rest of her pregnancy.

Now tell me. Who are you trying to protect? The junky? You should be protecting the kids. What about the kids who are living in foster care, waiting to be adopted? Where are the parents for them? Now say this person, gets their life turned around. They can adopt!! Oh its not the same you say? To bad, its not the same for that child either. A person who really wants to be a parent won't let a little thing called blood stop them.

Not to mention, having ten kids decreases their quality of life with each child. Unless the parents are extra special, good luck on that. I myself am planning on getting fixed, I have two kids. If I still f0ill the need to parent after my kids are older, I will adopt. I've done my contribution to society as I like to put it.

Again I ask, who are you protecting? The junky? What about the kids? The junky had his/her chance.

Re: Questions [Re: Cholinergic] #98231
05/07/05 09:33 PM
05/07/05 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 682
Blighty
Fifi_la_Bonne Offline

Cos Priestess
Fifi_la_Bonne  Offline

Cos Priestess

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 682
Blighty
You may wish to consider getting a good accountant so that you can avoid paying unnecessary taxes when you are in a position to do so.

The lion need give nothing to the antelope.

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98232
05/07/05 10:38 PM
05/07/05 10:38 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
patbateman Offline OP
patbateman  Offline OP

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
OK.
First of all thankyou all for the refresher. Posts from other Satanists is like getting the slap in the face you need to wake up.
When my statements got analysed, I got real opinions back. If I'd asked advice from any "normal" person, I would have been met with outright criticism and strong urging to turn back to the mentality of helping the stupid and carrying them thru life.
Now I do realise where I am going wrong.
-Talented people will generally pass on some traits to the kids. Even if they adopt, they will use their superior talent to raise a talented child, thereby enriching the gene pool.
-Fuckwits should not be given a second chance. If you are on crack and leave your kid in a dumpster then fucking die (and get sterilised with a big kick to the genitals). Fair enough.
-If people elect not to rebel against their shit government then they are in a bad situation of their own making. Then they shall perish if they elect to do nothing. So be it.
-And, yes the leapord seldom changes his spots. If you're an idiot now, you WILL be an idiot later.
-Yeah, I believe nobody is right all the time, but Dr LaVey obviously thought carefully about what he wrote before he wrote it, to make sure he was right. Sorry Dr LaVey (bows respectfully).

I feel clearer now, and even foolish. I sounded like a wide eyed child who had stumbled into a room filled with Satanists.

Daniel.

Open to correction. [Re: patbateman] #98233
05/08/05 06:53 AM
05/08/05 06:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,236
Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister
Nemo  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,236
Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
A missile is off course 99% of the time.

By accounting for new information from radar it constantly corrects its course to hit the target dead on!

You are demonstrating a rare and virtuous trait: a willingness to accept correction - just like a missile.

This is, in my opinion, the only way to successfully approach life.

I congratulate you on building your true ego instead of attempting to inflate a false one.

Good for you!

Re: Answers. [Re: Nemo] #98234
05/08/05 07:04 PM
05/08/05 07:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,796
Forever West
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock
Discipline  Offline
CoS Warlock

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,796
Forever West
>>You have many popular views that will make you welcome amongst "caring" people.

Ah, may I add something, Magister?

Making people assume that you are a caring or even to make them feel comfortable around you is an important aspect of lesser magic. If people think of you as caring they are more willing to do your bidding and even open path ways for you.

I agree that Satanism is not about holding onto popular ideals for the sake of fitting in. I do feel that using those popular ideals to your advantage is. It is about self-benefit without self-deceit.

I just wanted to add that for those on-lookers. I know that you know this, Magister.

Cheers!

Last edited by Discipline; 05/08/05 07:19 PM.

"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
Thanks [Re: Nemo] #98235
05/08/05 07:31 PM
05/08/05 07:31 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
patbateman Offline OP
patbateman  Offline OP

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
Thankyou to everyone who had re-evaluated their assesments of me after reading my follow-up post (tips hat). I appreciate compliments and brutal honesty equally.

Last edited by patbateman; 05/11/05 05:09 AM.
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98237
05/08/05 08:04 PM
05/08/05 08:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 733
A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
I
IronCrafter Offline
IronCrafter  Offline
I

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 733
A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Sometimes it's gratifying to have to admit being in error about another person.

This is another of those times for me..You have proven me incorrect in my initial assessment. Well done.

Hold onto that Baphomet. I have no doubt that you will be in need of it!

And Welcome to the board Pat!


"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter
Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98238
05/08/05 10:35 PM
05/08/05 10:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,976
The Deep South
Old_Pig Offline
Old_Pig  Offline

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,976
The Deep South
What about the people getting fucked over by corrupt governments?

There is an old saying that goes: People have the government they deserve. If a nation of indolent slobs let their politicians get too powerful and corrupt, then they have to suffer the consequences. Why should anyone else give them help to solve the problems they themselves got into?

In any case, when their corrupt government gets too out of hand, they will finally get the "help" their need in the form of a nice invasion. Then they will finally have the "freedom" they wanted... but since they didn’t fight for it themselves, it will come at the cost of their oil, or whatever other natural resource they got. I think it’s just fair!


You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Questions [Re: Old_Pig] #98239
05/09/05 03:41 PM
05/09/05 03:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 107
Finland
oggi Offline
oggi  Offline

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 107
Finland
People have the government they deserve
Untrue. If in majority dictatorship country(ex. USA, UK) have most of its people voting for NSDAP(Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) becouse it gives people food, and say things what people want to hear, and becouse there is no time to read what they will do when they rule country(becouse economic depression). And when they NSDAP have Führer, then there is nothing people could do. And everyone suffer, not only those who voted for NSDAP, but also those who were against Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

Of course, there is no innocents, expect those, who knew, what was going to happen, those who read mein kampf(of course we could say that they should have left everything they had and go onto streets to tell the truth, but that kind act need courange, and I can't find that kind courange from myself(becouse if you say against them, you could find yourself dead in morning), and becouse of that, I say that they weren't truly guilty to that faith), but only few had that change. And becouse majority wished, becouse of their stupidity, everyone in country suffer.

In majority dictatorship country(unlike the Nordic countries) small ones are allways thrown into obvilion, if it comes into deciding things. That means, that even if you are intelligent enough to have political opinnion, only way to make it to be heard in voiting, is to support(voting, giving money, telling people to vote that ideology...) one who you hate you less(or one who you think is close enough to right direction). But what if you see that there is only two possibility, and both of them are as bad. Do you thind that you deseserve to live in country whit ideologi of kommunism, or nazism.

Re: Questions [Re: oggi] #98240
05/10/05 12:16 AM
05/10/05 12:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,976
The Deep South
Old_Pig Offline
Old_Pig  Offline

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,976
The Deep South
Do you thind that you deseserve to live in country whit ideologi of kommunism, or nazism.

No, I don't. But I was talking about people, not about me.

I still think people (as in the population of a country) get the government they deserve. As you said, herd conformity make they vote for parties that latter will enslave them. Let them eat cake!


You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Questions [Re: patbateman] #98241
05/10/05 12:37 AM
05/10/05 12:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,845
Lycopolis
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member
Mr_Atrox  Offline
CoS Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,845
Lycopolis
You said:
Quote:

I don't think the eugenics thing would ever work simply because of one simple fact: Talented people are not guaranteed to have talented kids.




And follow with:
Quote:

1. Irresponsible people who get sterilised (as Lavey says they whould in "Satan Speaks") may turn their lives around later and then we may miss out on great talent being born.




If talented children aren't guaranteed to talented parents, then how much lower does the percentage drop if the parents in question are of the turn-their-lives around variety?

Hmmm.


WEREWOLVES

BLOOD & HONOR
Re: Questions [Re: oggi] #98242
05/10/05 06:09 AM
05/10/05 06:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
US
hickeyarmy Offline
hickeyarmy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
US
Yes, I must insist on the correctness of the idea that people get the government they deserve. These governments do not descend upon the people from outer space. All governments in power have come to be such by the decisions directly or indectly made by the masses. They made the choices of leadership, or failed to keep leadership that was against their interests from taking power. Once in power, these governments serve their own agendas, unless kept from doing so by the masses. Where is the suprise or shock in that?
Self-emancipation is the only true emancipation. I will only respect the self-emancipated, for they have acted for their own interests and succeeded. Those who are enslaved and "oppressed" deserve no pity whatsoever. Victory is the only basis of right in this world, not moral postures and pipedreams.
The same truth holds for every human grouping that has organized itself. Whether a business concern or an ethnicity, it has only itself to blame for its successes and failures.


The flesh is my kingdom, my playground, my paradise, and my wealth. May the flesh prevail forever!
Re: Questions [Re: Old_Pig] #98243
05/10/05 09:22 PM
05/10/05 09:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 107
Finland
oggi Offline
oggi  Offline

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 107
Finland
Quote:

Do you thind that you deseserve to live in country whit ideologi of kommunism, or nazism.

No, I don't. But I was talking about people, not about me.
I still think people (as in the population of a country) get the government they deserve. As you said, herd conformity make they vote for parties that latter will enslave them. Let them eat cake!


problem is, that 90%(optimistic estimate) humans are fools, and I really don't care if they destroy themselves(of course expect people I like), but I don't wan't to go down whit them.

But there is some good points in that soothsaying, I think that Bush and USA deserves each other.


"You fool, you wanderer You challenged the gods and lost" -nightwish
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