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#98796 - 05/10/05 10:54 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I realize this is largely preaching to the choir, having never met or heard of a real Satanist who did not possess a private library worth taking to a desert island.

Acquiring knowledge is not about using it pretentiously, it is about being cognizant of as much as possible for purposes of adaptation and exploitation.

Being largely self-educated, having left school at a very early age, I’m essentially mapping what I find to be the best approach for whoever might find it useful. I don’t recall learning anything of value in public school. My public school experience was entirely negative. This led me later to read up on the history and development of public education. This series of posts is what I would have liked someone to have handed to me when I was sixteen or seventeen years old. I share the opinion of many serious educators that most education of consequence is SELF education anyway. The idea is to expect more from yourself than anyone else would expect from you.

Nothing is safely assumed, even of allegedly “educated” people. I have an associate who is a retired professor from a large state university in the Midwest. For a time he was a visiting professor of American History at Oxford, where, he told me, students were given a list of 16-20 hardcore scholarly books to finish over the summer for their fall course. That’s 16-20 heavy books that they were expected to have under their belt before ONE course. When he returned to his position at the state university, he had students who thought Vietnam was in Korea, and that the Vietnam War was during WWII. Most people are out to get their ticket punched so they can enter the workforce. There is nothing wrong with this, but the topic here is actual life-long education for its own sake – not temporarily bluffing through, or scraping under the wire with the minimal requirements. I have seen this play out with my own eyes in other contexts. So there is nothing that can be safely assumed of the so-called “educated.” Standards vary. Especially the standards to which people hold themselves.

Before the gulags now known as “public schools” were spawned from the egalitarian socialization-over-knowledge theories of John Dewey, most primary and secondary educational programs were modeled after the “Seven Liberal Arts” dividing education into the “Trivium” (3 parts) and “Quadrivium” (4 parts). This is useful for our discussion.

The Trivium consisted of Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric.

The Quadrivium consisted of Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, and Astronomy. This scheme dates from the Middle Ages and is obviously not adequate for the scope of information available on all subjects today. Alternatives for this will be discussed below.

The Trivium was originally implemented from Tutor to Student as STAGES of education.

In the initial Grammar stage, the student was expected to learn the basic elements of knowledge. Memory is a key factor at this stage.

This was followed by the Dialectic (or Logic) phase, where the student is expected to exercise his critical thinking skills, to evaluate whether information is true or false, correct or incorrect, and make logical connections between cause and effect, historical events, scientific phenomena, words and their meanings, etc.

In the Rhetoric phase, the ability to organize and articulate individual opinions and arguments pertaining to any given subject was expected of the student. Rhetoric covers all modes of verbal expression, argumentation, and uses of speech. This is now most commonly encountered as Composition, which is Rhetoric of the written word.

The three stages can also be applied to any given topic.

1. Grammar: Gain the basic knowledge of your subject, collect the raw information to be analyzed later.

2. Logic: Analyze and evaluate the information, is it true or false, correct or incorrect, what are the logical relations of its parts?

3. Rhetoric: Digest the information into your own understanding. Organize and express your findings, opinions and arguments about the information you have surveyed.

Grammar, logic, and rhetoric are about the cycle of acquisition, comprehension, organization, and presentation of knowledge.

At face value, Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric are the BASIC TOOLS of the mind.

SUGGESTED READING:
The Lost Tools of Learning by Dorothy Sayers: http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html
[ignore the Christian slant]

1. GRAMMAR
1.a. BOOKS:
The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (2. vols.)
The King’s English by Fowler.
Fowler’s Modern English Usage.
The Elements of Style by Strunk & White.
Etyma: An introduction to vocabulary-building from Latin & Greek by C.A.E. & L.J. Juschnig.
English Words from Latin and Greek elements by Donald M. Ayers.

1.b. ONLINE:
The American Heritage DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE: http://www.bartleby.com/61/
Roget’s II: THE NEW THESAURUS: http://www.bartleby.com/62/
Strunk & White’s THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE: http://orwell.ru/library/others/style/index.htm
H.W. Fowler THE KINGS ENGLISH: http://www.bartleby.com/116/
American Heritage BOOK OF ENGLISH USAGE: http://www.bartleby.com/64/
The Columbia GUIDE TO STANDARD AMERICAN ENGLISH: http://www.bartleby.com/68/
The Columbia Encyclopedia: http://www.bartleby.com/65/

2. LOGIC (& CRITICAL THINKING)
2.a. BOOKS:
Being Logical by D.Q. McInerny.
The Philosopher’s Toolkit by Baggini & Fosl.
Critical Thinking by Max Black.
Introduction to Logic by Irving Copi.
A Concise Introduction to Logic by Hurley.

2.b. ONLINE:
Mission Critical: http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html
Logic & Fallacies: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html
Informal Fallacies: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/fallacy.htm.FALLACIES
Logical Fallacies Index: http://datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

3. RHETORIC
3.a. BOOKS:
Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student by Corbett & Conners.

3.b. ONLINE:
The Forest of Rhetoric: http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm



The Trivium is also one model for home schooling. Concerning the Quadrivium, the problem of schematizing the complete scope of human knowledge has been dealt with in various ways over time, before and after Martianus Capella. More specific on these ideas and their relation to Satanism later....

I’m interested in all thoughts, comments, opinions, book recommendations, etc. on these concepts so far.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98797 - 05/10/05 11:09 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
That's quite a bit to digest Reverend Svengali.

If you were to place yourself in the postion of one just beginning to delve into these subjects,how would you prioritize this reading list?

Thank you in advance for your wise advice,Crafter.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98798 - 05/10/05 11:16 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: IronCrafter]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
1. Strunk & White's ELEMENTS OF STYLE. An awesome little book that is itself a model of lucid expository prose, to be read, re-read, ad infinitum, to be internalized.

2. McInerny's BEING LOGICAL. His professed motive was t o create for basic logic what Strunk and White did for english usage. He succeeded. Another lucid little book to be read, re-read, ad infinitum, to be internalized.

3. Corbett & Conner's CLASSICAL RHETORIC FOR THE MODERN STUDENT. This is probably the best general textbook of Rhetoric that I have found (I collect logic and rhetoric textbooks).

This "core" list will be added to later.

A good dictionary is also indespensable.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98799 - 05/10/05 11:21 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Indeed.

I have a knack for seeing how various disciplines are connected. I'm actually in a special program at my college where, instead of taking one history course, one English course, etc., I can take specialized classes that combine, in essence, different disciplines.This means that while we're studying history, we also look at the scientific theories that blossomed during a particular age, and how those related to the religious theories of the age, and how that all related to the political situation, and how that was all reflected in the literature of the time. This means, for example, that instead of taking a boring course in English and writing, I can take a course on philosophy that will have an emphasis on teaching me writing and English skills, while also teaching me about philosophy. These courses are usually team-taught by teachers from different disciplines, as well.

When I tell people I'm part of this program, they generally look quite intimidated or befuddled, and they tell me how hard it must be and how much work must be involved. They can't see how these disciplines are actually related, so they interpret relating disciplines to each other as challenging or weird. But, I'm all about exploring the psychology of religion, or the science of history, or the writing mechanics of philosophy.

I also get assorted comments on my major/minors and my various interests, because they don't seem to be related in most people's eyes.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98800 - 05/10/05 11:22 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Eussiah Offline


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 33
This is indeed a very important and interesting thread. I admire your ability to compose your thoughts on such a profound and meaningful subject so well.

Quote:

The idea is to expect more from yourself than anyone else would expect from you.




Every person, when considering Satanism, should ask themselves if this is true for them. This is really what seperates the few from the herd. The "strong will" does not want to skate through life on luxury and complacency. The strong willed individual wants to strive, to exert oneself, to expand oneself to include all things. Too many who claim to be Satanists latch onto the "do what thou wilt" idea as an excuse for sloth of body and mind. If one's strongest desire is for complacency and laziness, then this person is not suited for Satanism. Why worship the self, if the self is a weak, ignorant, lazy thing? The self to worship is the self that seeks to encompass all knowledge and ability.

I have long been annoyed by "Satanists" whose highest peroggative is the life of ease and complacency (Nietzsche's "last man"). I thank you for bringing up this topic. To hold oneself to higher standards than anyone else would impose might just be the criterion by which "real" Satanists may be differentiated from the angry, the reactionary, and the slothful. Worship of the self requires a worthy self to worship!

I look forward to more discussion about the education systems. I myself attended private school, where the range of subjects and connections between them were indeed focused on, at least moreso than the public schools in my area. But no school is ever sufficient. I viewed my school experience as a menu which described various subjects. If something sounded tasty, I would go to a bookstore and order the whole meal. Unfortunatey, this is not the attitude that most (if any) schools advocate today.

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#98801 - 05/10/05 11:23 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Remorazz]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Ignorance should cause discomfort, while stupidity should cause actual pain, to my mind. There's nothing sinister about ignorance, provided one eradicates it post haste. Stupidity is being proud of ignorance, fundamentally.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98802 - 05/10/05 11:26 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Thank you Reverend.

A better ordered thought process seemed the most critical jumping off point to me. I'll look forward to your next update,thank you once again.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98803 - 05/10/05 11:28 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Isabel23]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Or, like I mentioned before, the people who gasp at my extensive knowledge in various areas, as if assembling knowledge was akin to picking prickly pears under an August sun.

It is always interesting to me how many television shows feature brainy characters whose braininess makes them exceptionally weird, snotty, and inaccessible, when in reality, this is obviously not the case. I have a sizeable vocabulary by normal standards, but I can and do still use slang---I'm not a robot by any means!

As for mistrust of intellectuals--just notice how few real intellectuals get elected to public office or become really popular celebrities. People don't want to feel inferior or lacking, rather, they want their stars and politicians to be good ol' boys and girls like them.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98804 - 05/10/05 11:58 AM Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: TrojZyr]
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
I agree - at least ignorance can be cured.

Ignorance is a primitive man from Papua New Guinea sticking his finger in a plugged in light socket, assuming that this individual has had absolutely no experience with electricity.

Stupidity is when a licensed electrician sticks his finger into a light socket to see if it works.

Ignorance is simply a lack of experience - stupidity is when experience is ignored.
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#98805 - 05/10/05 12:58 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Nyarlathotep]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Agreed, but, shouldn't every effort be made to elliminate the ignorant or at the very most "reform" them? I beleive that the ignorant loves his/her ignorance and will not put out the effort to help themselve (most of the time I found).

Is it up to the "elite" to "show the the way"?

I just hate it when someone says: "duh! I donno" ...


I tolerate it from my sons that is about it...
_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98806 - 05/10/05 01:12 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Remorazz]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Remorazz,the really sad thing is that the ignorant fail to realize that NOT being ignorant serves thier best interests.

But again this pig headed refusal to work to better oneself is what stupidity is all about. One can,but refuses to. So they look to government to "level the playing field" in a deluded attempt to lessen the inevitable consequences of thier inadequecies, instead.

After all,it's supposed to be an *egalitarian* system catering to the fastest speed of the slowest members,right?

Which is the same system used in public schools, and a lot of why education is so inadequate.


Edited by IronCrafter (05/10/05 01:15 PM)
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98807 - 05/10/05 01:59 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Remorazz]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Agreed, but, shouldn't every effort be made to elliminate the ignorant or at the very most "reform" them? I beleive that the ignorant loves his/her ignorance and will not put out the effort to help themselve (most of the time I found).


Simple ignorance, as we've defined it in this thread, is a problem of access to education.

Willing ignorance, or stupidity, on the other hand, is not something that can be reformed. The best way to deal with it is to simply let them bear the consequences of their own actions. That's what law is for.
_________________________
reprobate

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#98808 - 05/10/05 02:06 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Creed Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
Indeed, formal education does not a Satanist make. As you are so eloquently walking us through, it takes much more finesse, well-rounded knowledge, and critical thinking skills to be able to effectively exploit those grey areas.

Being able to present ideas in a lucid manner is of paramount importance. In fact, if you can’t express your ideas so that others can understand, there’s no point in expressing them at all. But of all the concepts you’ve spoken of so far, I believe critical thinking to be the key. We must be able to synthesize our knowledge and experience in order to put it to use, and thus become more adept at exploiting those grey areas.

I’ve never heard of The Trivium. Thank you for presenting it in such an easily understandable manner. And your suggested readings have been duly noted and added to my list. I always appreciate your willingness to bring your very relevant thoughts into this forum.

The system I’ve been using to sharpen my own critical thinking skills goes more along the lines of Bloom’s Taxonomy. It basically describes six cognitive levels from which critical thinking can be demonstrated.

The first level is “Knowledge”. Basically, a starting point that includes both the acquisition of information and the ability to recall the information when needed.

The second level is “Comprehension”…the basic level of understanding. It involves the ability to know what’s being communicated in order to make use of the information.

The third level is “Application”. This includes the ability to use/demonstrate a learned skill in a new situation.

The fourth level is “Analysis”. This is where the information is actually broken down into its integral parts and the relationship of each part of the total ‘organization’ is identified.

Level five is “Synthesis”. Just like it sounds, this involves the ability to combine existing elements in order to create something original.

The last level, level six, is “Evaluation”. This is the ability to make a judgment about the value of something using a ‘standard’.

For me, there is a very Satanic measure to this way of thinking, as it allows for a methodical path of categorizing, synthesizing, utilizing and thus deciding how best to exploit our knowledge.

I look forward to the next installment of this very compelling serial post!
_________________________
"If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life." - Albert Camus

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#98809 - 05/10/05 03:41 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
I actually dropped out of formal education during my junior year of college. Much to the dismay of my extended family, I made that choice. They didn't understand it at first, being that I've scored very highly on different kinds of markers and throughout youth have always been very intelligent.

I just wasn't focused. I just wasn't built for it - I've always processed knowledge better when I've made the proactive step to study it.

I'm saying this because I've learned a great deal since that period - both in street knowledge and in book. And I feel a lot greater for it, for making the decision to learn what I choose. I'm certainly not hurting financially at the moment due to my decision.

I got a lot out of this, Rev. Svengali, I really have to thank you. Because it's very true, and kind of hit home to me - not b/c I'm at a lack of desire to continue educating myself, but rather b/c I recognize the need. It's actually quite humbling, yet equally empowering.

And I'm not just saying that in a "Words of wisdom from on high, thank you CoS higher-up" kind of way, I really mean it: good job.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98810 - 05/10/05 05:56 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Nyarlathotep]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Precisely.

I'd also say stupidity is when essential common knowledge or common sense is ignored.

Just watch the game show "Street Smarts" if you want an example of this.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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