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#98826 - 05/11/05 05:51 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

I have learned, however, that some of the saddest, most pathetic people in the world are intended business majors. There should be a special euthanasia station within the business department or something--so many of them talk about their lives and future career plans like they're being eterntally banished to Siberia.




I agree. College makes morons by the dozens. And nothing says useless like "Business major". There is something about four years of egalitatian, altruistic, indoctrination that creates a not only arrogant person, but a stupid one as well.

My great grandmother had this to say. And I find it holds true, most of the time.

"There are three kinds of people. People that think and talk about people. People that think and talk about things. And people that think and talk about ideas. The smarter more interesting people tend to think more on things and ideas, or people that had great ideas, or accomplished great things. People that are troublemakers and are inherantly stupid usally can be found gossiping, creating social chaos, and will usually talk about other people, and the petty actions of other mundane people. Rarely will you find one talking about a book they read recently, or an idea they had."

If you happen to work a day-job, stop and eves-drop on the idle conversations of any leaders, managers, or supervisors. Pay attention to the topics they like to discuss. Most of them will talk about people mostly. What their family did, what so-and-so said over by the water cooler... Then go find an engineer, or technician, listen in on their conversations.

Quote:

The dumbest are education ed or women's studies, incidentally.




Isn't that cliche? The real peices of work end up teaching children? Well, not like any real harm is being done.

And what the fuck is women's Studies? Is there a Men's Studies and a Hermaphrodite's studies?
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"ďLet the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.Ē ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#98827 - 05/11/05 07:37 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Markus_Mayer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Germany, this planet
Satanism is not only a special kind of religion or philosophy, it is a special kind of humans! I never had the hunger to introduce myself like "I am a Satanist!". I even donīt introduce myself like "I am a human!". At the end both is nonsens and not necessary. No matter how I call myself - people of my tribe will always recognize me as what I truely am. And I will recognize them...

I agree with you, Reverend Svengali!
_________________________
Markus Mayer

"Black is the sum of all colors!"

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#98828 - 05/11/05 10:28 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>>And what the fuck is women's Studies?

Oh you know, things like cooking, cleaning and sewing. Be sure to tell a "Women's Studies" major that the next time you see one!
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#98829 - 05/11/05 10:41 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Nemo]
Eussiah Offline


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 33
Quote:

I enjoy learning things. It is it's own reward.
I'll bet that's true for you too.




Indeed it is. The type of worth I was trying to refer to wasn't a value measured in grades or other kinds of results. I probably should have been more clear that I was referring to the attitude described above, that learning is its own reward.

The fact that I exist is enough to get the ball rolling. In first placing myself above evaluation, as you said, I first came to worship myself. But I find that such a state of non-valuation is hard to sustain in a society, and especially when interacting with other Satanists. Valuation comes into the picture whether we like it or not, though we, unlike the people we are surrounded by, choose our own values. In choosing a value for myself, the desire and drive to learn, so long as it is followed by the action such as reading a book or observing the world, seems to be a worthy standard. Having the knowledge itself is the goal, naturally, but I am no more of a worthy object for self worship because I have added some bit of knowledge to my memory. It is the active desire to do so that makes me worthy in my own eyes, and eventually results in the accumulation of knowledge which translates into power.

It seemed to me that many who were replying here share the same or a similar type of value-system for themselves.

Perhaps I should amend my earlier statement. Someone considering Satanism should first find himself/herself capable of self-worship, outside of any valuation. This should always stay with him or her, but this person must promptly ask, "If not the values of the culture around me, than what kind of values would I like to live by, and thereby serve myself best?" This, I think, is where the ideas of this thread come into play. It seems that if the person in question is of a Satanic mind, the value of constant study and learning is both a good way to further the self and also an instinct (using that last word very broadly). It seems to be, at least among those replying here, that the urge to learn is a strong part of the Satanic will. It is hard to imagine transcending the cultural valuations without this urge.

A final word on this subject:
The valuations we choose for ourselves must be seen as guides, not mandates. We will always fall short of an absolute value. Therefore, as you said, taking oneself outside valuations is the only way to be one's own god, and this is important to remember at all times.

Thanks for the comments. I hope this is somewhere along the lines of where you were going.

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#98830 - 05/11/05 11:05 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
Hey man, don't be dissin' on business-folk. I'm in that ilk.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98831 - 05/11/05 11:50 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Nemo]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Quote:

I would suggest first that there is a value in taking yourself beyond evaluation. You are your own God and God doesn't need straight "A"s on his report card to be God, if you follow me.




I do follow you in this thought process,Magister.

I've done enough "navel gazing" to know my inner beast, and it's quirks, etc.......but that becomes counterpoductive after a while..One begins to get into unreasonable realms of self-doubt.

What I have learned is to go with my gut instinct,since the evaluation process is internalized to that level now.

My subconscious is programmed to do that FOR me.

So having moved to that point,all I have to do is know if I feel pleased or displeased with myself. If it's pleasure, I have done well..If not, I make the needful adjustments to bring me back to that feeling.

There is no need for validation-only to follow my muse.

It's in no way a measure of perfection,but of happiness.

I want to grow and expand my horizons until my moments are gone,to have a thrilling time with life. Education is expensive..It requires time, and it can be painful.

But the rewards always exceed the hardships.

One becomes more,and that's never a bad thing.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98832 - 05/11/05 11:59 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, I think the arrogant, stupid people at college tend to belong to one of two types:

Those who took the classes, and took them too seriously.
Those who took the classes, and didn't take them seriously at all.

One type becomes a joyless, pretentious, screamy ideologue, who uses college classes to push them deeper into a safe, warm ideological-behavioral box so that they'll always have an auto-response or auto-reply to everything that life tosses at them. The other becomes a joyless "dude, school sucks, everything sucks" burger flipper or number cruncher who *would* commit suicide, if they had more self-awareness.

Neither type is capable of actual learning, I'd say.

Well, to be fair, many of the ed majors will make decent teachers for the littluns--that's not the problem. I've just noticed that the folks who go to a place of higher learning with the aspiration of spending life with toddlers tend not to be the brightest fingerpaints at the easel. A lot of them seem to be cutesy Christians who just are intimidated and perplexed by adult situations and conversations, so they're retreating to a place where they won't have to confront such things.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98833 - 05/11/05 12:10 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Before going into issues surrounding the intent and limitations of the classical Quadrivium, there is something worth discussing.

With the basic tools of the Trivium; basic language and vocabulary skills, logic and critical thinking skills, and skill in the devices and means of rhetoric and composition, is another skill: READING.

As most people mistakenly believe they already know how to think well just because they have thoughts, most people mistakenly believe they know how to read well just because they enjoy reading.

Just as the acts of thought are improved by acquiring the basic systematic methods of grammar, logic, and rhetoric, there are systematic methods of READING.

This brings us to another book I would add to the ďcoreĒ list: HOW TO READ A BOOK by Mortimer Adler and Mark VanDoren.

I first read this book when I was around 17, having owned it for some time, presumptuously assuming it beneath me because I had been an avid reader most of my life. Nothing could have been farther from the truth. This is one of the most valuable books I have ever encountered.

I have passed this book along to several people with impressive academic credentials who were similarly impressed, having never encountered stand-alone systematic reading instruction in the course of their education. Consensus is that this is an invaluable systematic approach to getting the absolute most out of reading for education rather than mere entertainment.

Adler and VanDoren outline systematic reading into five stages: 1. Inspectional Reading, 2. Active Reading, 3. Annotative Reading, 4. Analytical reading, and 5. Syntopical Reading (Reading multiple books on one subject).

The progression is as follows:

1. Inspectional Reading.
1.1. Look at the title page and read the preface.
1.2. Study the table of contents.
1.3. Check the index.
1.4. Read the dust-jacket or book cover.
1.5. Skim the book.

2. Active Reading.
2.1. What is the book about as a whole?
2.2. What is being said in detail, and how?
2.3. Is the book true, in whole or in part?
2.4. What of it?

3. Annotative Reading.
3.1. Underlining.
3.2. Vertical lines at the margin.
3.3. Star, asterisk, or other do-dad at the margin.
3.4. Numbers in the margin: to indicate a sequence of points in a developing argument.
3.5. Numbers of other pages in the margins: to indicate relevant passages on other pages of the book.
3.6. Circling key words or phrases.
3.7. Writing in the margins.

4. Analytical Reading.
4.1. Finding out what a book is about.
4.1.1. Classify the book according to kind and subject matter.
4.1.2. State what the whole book is about with the utmost brevity.
4.1.3. Enumerate its major parts in their order and relation, and outline these parts as you have outlined the whole.
4.1.4. Define the problem or problems the author has tried to solve.

4.2. Interpreting the bookís contents.
4.2.1. Come to terms with the author by interpreting his key words.
4.2.2. Grasp the authorís leading propositions by dealing with his most important sentences.
4.2.3. Know the authorís arguments, by finding them in, or constructing them out of, sequences of sentences.
4.2.4. Determine which of his problems the author has solved, and which he has not; and of the latter, decide which the author knew he had failed to solve.

4.3. Criticizing a book as a communication of knowledge.

4.3.1. General rules of intellectual etiquette.
4.3.1.1. Do not begin criticism until you have completed your outline and your interpretation of the book.
4.3.1.2. Do not disagree disputatiously or contentiously.
4.3.1.3. Demonstrate that you recognize the difference between knowledge and mere personal opinion by presenting good reasons for any critical judgment you make.

4.3.2. Special criteria for points of criticism.
4.3.2.1. Show wherein the author is uninformed.
4.3.2.2. Show wherein the author is misinformed.
4.3.2.3. Show wherein the author is illogical.
4.3.2.4. Show wherein the authorís analysis or account is incomplete.

5. Syntopical Reading. Studying more than one book on a particular subject.

5.1. Surveying the field preparatory to Syntopical reading.
5.1.1. Create a tentative bibliography of your subject by recourse to library catalogues, advisors, and bibliographies in books.
5.1.2. Inspect all of the books on the tentative bibliography to ascertain which are germane to your subject, and also to acquire a clearer idea of the subject.

5.2. Syntopical reading of books from the bibliography compiled.
5.2.1. Inspect the books already identified as relevant to your subject in order to find the most relevant passages.
5.2.2. Bring the authors to terms by constructing a neutral terminology of the subject that all, or the great majority of them can be interpreted as employing, whether they actually employ the words or not.
5.2.3. Establish a set of neutral propositions for all of the authors by framing a set of questions to which all or most of them can be interpreted as giving answers, whether they actually treat the questions explicitly or not.
5.2.4. Define the issues, both major and minor ones, by ranging the opposing answers of authors on one side of an issue or another. You should remember that an issue does not always exist explicitly between or among authors, but that it sometimes has to be constructed by interpretation of the authorsí views on matters that my not have been their primary concern.
5.2.5. Analyze the discussion by ordering the questions and issues in such a way as to throw maximum light on the subject. More general issues should precede less general ones, and relations among issues should be clearly indicated.


Special attention should be paid to the Active, Analytical, and Syntopical phases.

Hereís how I look at a book or any other piece of writing intended to convey information with interpretation or any form of argument: From the ground up, words are arranged into sentences which are arranged into paragraphs which are arranged into sections or chapters which, arranged together, form the book. The book is on the subject, the chapters are subdivisions of the subject, the paragraphs are units of information, argument, etc. Each chapter contains paragraphs of leading importance. Each paragraph has a sentence of leading importance, or statements that can arranged into a cogent summary of the point.

So, theoretically, depending on how well thought out, well organized, or well written a book is, itís contents can be broken down to a numbered outline, similar to my outline of Adler and VanDorenís method above.

When marking a book, I underline the leading sentences of each paragraph, making a star or some do-dad at the margin next to it to highlight its importance in relation to the other paragraphs. In the margin I will write numbers indicating the steps of development of the authors argument. These are the parts extracted into an outline.

The outline can then be cooked down into a summary.

Until you can coherently outline and summarize the contents of a book, you cannot claim to know the contents of the book.

To recap, in criticizing a book, as Adler points out, outside of agreement with the authorís presentation, analysis, interpretations, or arguments, there are only four ways to disagree with any aspect, or with the whole:

1. Because the author is uninformed (Lacking information).
2. Because the author is misinformed (Wrong or incorrect information).
3. Because the authorís reasoning is flawed (Argument includes non-sequiters or other logical flaws).
4. Because the authorís account, analysis, or presentation is incomplete.

How good a reader you are depends on all of this, predicated off the basic tools of the Trivium.

If you donít understand the meaning of a word in a sentence, you will not understand the sentence. This is what dictionaries and vocabularies are for.

If you donít understand the meaning of a sentence in a paragraph, you will not understand the paragraph. This is what grammar is for.

If you donít understand or canít identify a statement that serves as the premise of an argument, you will not follow the argument or be able to evaluate its validity. This is what logic is for.

If you are not capable of recognizing common forms of argument, their fallacies, methods of verbal deception, and means of persuasion, you will be at their mercy. This is what rhetoric is for.

Rhetoric is Lesser Magic with words Ė grammar and logic are its raw material.

More about the Quadrivium its limitations and solutions, what to read, categorically and specifically, and why, to followÖÖ
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
ďA membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.Ē -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98834 - 05/11/05 12:25 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
In my experience, most of the people getting teaching degrees are people that either didn't know what else to get a degree in, or women that just went to college to get married. Either way, people that went to college for the sake of saying they went to college.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98835 - 05/11/05 12:47 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Deurges Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 35
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Anton LaVey has demonstrated how a creative synthesis should work. Therefore, every talented wanderer on the path will produce his or her personal "reading-list" sooner or later. But it is always helpfull to see what others have achieved, so we can imagine what is still hiding in the dark and waiting to be pulled into daylight by ourselfs. This is the idea of sharing knowledge and expanding it.


Edited by Deurges (05/11/05 12:47 PM)

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#98836 - 05/11/05 01:27 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Stirner Offline


Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 84
Quote:

>>And what the fuck is women's Studies?

Oh you know, things like cooking, cleaning and sewing. Be sure to tell a "Women's Studies" major that the next time you see one!




hahahahaha I recommend against that, unless you enjoy fuming feminazis.
_________________________
Lured by my style and tendency,
you follow and come after me?
Follow your own self faithfully--
take time!--and thus you follow me.
-Nietzsche

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#98837 - 05/11/05 01:31 PM Re: Question. [Re: Svengali]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Do you limit yourself to a certain number of relevant sources upon entering the Syntopical Reading stage so as to keep your progression going at an efficient rate?
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#98838 - 05/11/05 01:37 PM Re: Question. [Re: Mr_Atrox]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
That is a very good question.

Everyone has different capacities and reading patterns.

Personally I follow a fairly consistent pattern.

Iím going to have thoughts to share on that in another context after 2 or 3 more posts.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
ďA membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.Ē -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98839 - 05/11/05 01:55 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Notice how the progression of syntopical reading conforms to the phases of the Trivium:

The Grammar Phase:
5.2.1. Inspect the books already identified as relevant to your subject in order to find the most relevant passages.
5.2.2. Bring the authors to terms by constructing a neutral terminology of the subject that all, or the great majority of them can be interpreted as employing, whether they actually employ the words or not.

The Logic Phase:
5.2.3. Establish a set of neutral propositions for all of the authors by framing a set of questions to which all or most of them can be interpreted as giving answers, whether they actually treat the questions explicitly or not.
5.2.4. Define the issues, both major and minor ones, by ranging the opposing answers of authors on one side of an issue or another. You should remember that an issue does not always exist explicitly between or among authors, but that it sometimes has to be constructed by interpretation of the authorsí views on matters that my not have been their primary concern.
5.2.5. Analyze the discussion by ordering the questions and issues in such a way as to throw maximum light on the subject. More general issues should precede less general ones, and relations among issues should be clearly indicated.

The Rhetoric Phase would consist of organizing and presenting your own outline, summary, conclusions, arguments, interpretations, etc. of the material covered.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
ďA membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.Ē -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98840 - 05/11/05 02:13 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Some fascinating ideas you have brought up, Reverend. I find it interesting that I seem to incorporate many of the above processes in my reading naturally, without even knowing I was doing it.

In fact, the statement about inspecting books to find the most relevant passages reminds me of a technique I used to use on the reading comprehension sections of standardized tests. Instead of wasting time and effort on reading the whole selection, I would start on the questions immediately and refer back to the selection for the answer, skimming until I found it. I found this method to be a great time saver that actually boosted my scores, as I had more time to check my answers for errors.

I never was a big fan of standardized tests. I always considered them to we a waste of time and effort that forced teachers to cram set ammounts of often useless knowledge into the brains of often unwilling students when they could have been teaching something interesting.

Anyway, it seems that I have gone off topic. Sorry about that. Thank you once again for another excellent post, Reverend.

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