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#98766 - 05/09/05 11:34 AM DEEP SATANISM
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
DEEP SATANISM

Dr. LaVey was fond of saying Satanism demands STUDY – NOT worship.

I am appalled whenever I see or hear these crawling cretins who have barely “phonically” read THE SATANIC BIBLE, whose cultural literacy consists of whatever stuck from bad television, video games, movies, and trend-saturated peer-memes. Whose background knowledge consists of reading liner notes to a Danzig CD. Who, upon becoming barely capable of rephrasing some snippets from THE SATANIC BIBLE in their own words, immediately succumb to the idea that they “know it all.”

Without belittling THE SATANIC BIBLE in ANY way, it is ONE of FIVE books by Dr. LaVey – all of which cover a LOT of ground.

Once these are under your wing, it is advised to pursue the works listed in the bibliography of THE SATANIC WITCH.

This extensive list of books is a peek into Dr. LaVey’s private library, hand picked to provide Satanists with further research into the roots, scope, and spectrum of Satanism. (There are also the recommended reading lists in THE Church of Satan by Magistra Blanche Barton).

This is a lifetime project. I am almost forty years old, have studied Satanism since I was very young, and have been involved with the Church of Satan for well over a decade, and been a member of the Priesthood for nearly a decade. I have still not read all the books in that list. I’ve read most of them, and benefited greatly there from, but have not read all of them.

BUT this is not all.

Satanism does not exist in a vacuum.

Once you have the basic scope of Satanic theory and practice, you have to comprehend and apply it in the context of THE WHOLE WORLD.

Satanism is not called a WORLDLY PHILOSOPHY for nothing!

Satanism pertains to EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING pertains to Satanism.

A “third side” perspective bears insight into EVERYTHING a Satanist could conceivably turn their attention to: History, Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Sociology, the numerous Arts and Sciences, Business, Technology, etc.

The World is Your Oyster.

EVERYTHING is of interest.

For this reason, Satanists may be the last Renaissance men and women – the last generalists – interested in EVERYTHING.

MORE ON THIS LATER……
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98767 - 05/09/05 12:01 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
azriel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Post like this that really brings to light the heart of the Satanist. I have noticed that most people seem to think that reading these books is enough to call ones self a Satanist. I have read a lot of books on raw food diets but a raw food guru I am not.

There is a large difference between an “armchair satanist (lowercase on purpose)” and a living embodiment of the philosophical and religious applications that make one a true living Satanist. Your post brings clarity to this separation of Hollywood’s brand of Satanism and the real life story of those who continue to walk the path of the Elite.

Perhaps if more individuals would put the total resources provided in all of the works available by the CoS and the authors whose work inspired its coming into being to use, we would have less so called satanists and more authentic Satanists.

Thank you for your words.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Azriel

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#98768 - 05/09/05 12:04 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:


The World is Your Oyster.

EVERYTHING is of interest.

For this reason, Satanists may be the last Renaissance men and women – the last generalists – interested in EVERYTHING.





I feel that I am in agreement with you, sir.

I do not beleive that anything should be left to fester in the Darkness of Ignorance...

I will be looking for your next post on this.
_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98769 - 05/09/05 12:09 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
I see the truth in what you say Svengali.

Application is key, and I have been devoting a great deal of thought to these matters. One of the more interesting ones I have given focus to is about "total enviornments" and how they could benefit me.

Yet,is not an outwardly manipulated enviornment an expression of inner needs and prefferences? So yes,so many factors to be taken into account,and the human animal is complex. So the more one knows of it's workings and habits,the better armed one is in dealing with, and controlling it.

Thank you for the reminder,it seems I will need to be adding to my library soon!
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98770 - 05/09/05 12:11 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
It is said:

SPECIALISTS know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

GENERALISTS know less and less about more and more until they know nothing about everything.

The ideal would be to know as much as possible about as much as possible – pursuing “specialized” depth in subject matter that deeply inspires us, or relates directly to our worldly endeavors.

The strongest argument for general cultural literacy is that knowledge begets knowledge, and studies have shown that information is more readily assimilated by association – this means that the more background you have to associate to new data, the more likely you are to comprehend and retain the new information.

The better and faster information is assimilated and comprehended, the better and faster it is APPLIED.

Also, there is no end to the unexpected interrelationship between unlikely subjects, and the light it sheds.

The Satanist is especially adept in mapping and exploiting “gray areas.” One of the outstanding aspects of Dr. LaVey’s genius to was to map the grey areas between psychology and religion – his reading lists hint at the raw material he worked with to connect the dots – not just in the ‘academic’ sense, but in the real-world pragmatic sense.

A broad general background is also the antidote to “forgetfulness of past orthodoxies.”

MORE TO COME.......
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98771 - 05/09/05 12:27 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Nodding...the more varied the points of interest,the greater the permutations of the cross linkages.

The picture grows larger and larger........

Waits for the next installment.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98772 - 05/09/05 01:34 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
None of this is about pretentiousness or “intellectual” snobbery.

The main thrust of this ties directly to Dr. LaVey’s essay “The Details Make the Difference,” in SATAN SPEAKS! p. 141-42.

More later....
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98773 - 05/09/05 02:02 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Also, from our High Priest, Magus Peter H. Gilmore:

"Remember, “Satanism demands study, not worship!” But that study is an in-depth one of the human animal. It includes such topics as philosophy, history, religious beliefs, anthropology, sociology, psychology, and the hard sciences. The members of the Priesthood of Mendes, who represent us publicly, understand much in these areas. But there’s more.... They have their Priesthood not only because they have this knowledge, but because they have also applied it to honing their talents and using them to make a mark on the world itself, outside of the subject of Satanism."

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/MythCommunity.html

This applies to all Satanists, not just those who would be among the Hierarchy.

More to come...
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98774 - 05/09/05 04:54 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Well stated.

Instrumentalism(in depth) is next on my list.

In amongst my current studies on the works of Rembrandt, Vermeer and El Greco.

As well as The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi.
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#98775 - 05/09/05 05:49 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
"Once you have the basic scope of Satanic theory and practice, you have to comprehend and apply it in the context of THE WHOLE WORLD. "

Congratulation Svengali. these words mean a lot. it is so true . I have nothing to say more. and thank you.
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#98776 - 05/09/05 07:01 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>>The World is Your Oyster.
>>
>>EVERYTHING is of interest.

Aside from how things relate to Satanism, I've never understood this immense apathy that so many adults have to learning anything outside of their TV. I mean, don't people want to know at least a thing or two about the world? History? Biology? What all the fuss is over "E=mc2" or Shakespeare? Visit another country in their lifetime? Read a book that isn't from the first floor of Tower Records? I'll never understand it.

What's most pathetic is when they try to make inferiors out of those who DO have the curiosity and creativity to learn about the world. This is usually denoted by the phrase "You have too much time on your hands!" I heard people use that phrase on me, basically because I don't spend all my free time watching TV and playing computer games.

>>For this reason, Satanists may be the last Renaissance
>>men and women – the last generalists – interested in
>>EVERYTHING.

Unfortunately, I see many people take the "interest in everything" approach and misapply it to be masters-at-nothing. I've also met people who, to quote Dogbert, "combine arrogance with trivia and try to pass it off as intelligence."

But, more on this later.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#98777 - 05/09/05 07:23 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Stirner Offline


Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 84
Quote:

"You have too much time on your hands!"




Or... "You're self-absorbed"
Or... "You're living in the clouds"
Or... "What does that have to do with the real world?"

I get this all the time as a phil major. "What are you going to do with that?" Meaning: What's the career track for a philosophy degree, since that's all you could possibly want to do with it is get a job, right?

Knowledge for its own sake, or for one's own development and enrichment, is almost sinful anymore by modern standards, especially if it's "old" knowledge, "out of date" (meaning pre-1950). Surely what's going on now is most important! Bah.
_________________________
Lured by my style and tendency,
you follow and come after me?
Follow your own self faithfully--
take time!--and thus you follow me.
-Nietzsche

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#98778 - 05/09/05 07:46 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
People around school and elsewhere always gush about how I am "so smart" and "know something about everything."

Yes, I do have natural intelligence, but really, the fact that I supposedly know so much (and there are still many things I don't know) I think can be attributed, simply, to curiosity, passion, and dilligence. If you see the world as a fascinating place full of adventure, you'll explore the ins and outs with gusto. If you feel bashful about ignorance, ashamed of stupidity, and unease with not knowing, you'll strive to get out of those positions, stat. If you see information as a key to life rather than a burden, you'll seek it with greater enthusiasm. I also know when to apply my knowledge (and that includes knowing when and how to share tidbits of it), so that makes it seem all the more impressive.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98779 - 05/09/05 07:55 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
theburk - banned Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 7
hmm.... interesting idea there, TrojZyr, but one must not overlook theology, or rather books dealing with it, for in all fiction there is a shred of truth, also i think every satanist should read the bible, so they at least know a thing or two about it when they spout off at christians like myself (i mean no harm in coming here, i just wish to adress some misgivings about my religeon.) love craft is also some good fiction with lots of credible research behind it, i also am interested in the fortean documents myself.

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#98780 - 05/09/05 08:02 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Stirner]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I get this all the time as a phil major. "What are you going to do with that?" Meaning: What's the career track for a philosophy degree, since that's all you could possibly want to do with it is get a job, right?


I get this sometimes.

My old answer was, "Teach." After all, professors don't make small beans.

My new answer, though, is: "Whatever I want."


Edited by reprobate (05/09/05 08:03 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#98781 - 05/09/05 08:18 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

The Satanist is especially adept in mapping and exploiting “gray areas.”


This really struck a chord with me.

I don't claim to be adept at it, but I've always been drawn to those gaps of knowledge. Ethics, psychology, religion, history, economics, politics, jurisprudence, anthropology and culture, art and literature -- even the logical and physical sciences -- all spring from the same dark source, desire. And I've dedicated my life to understanding this source.
_________________________
reprobate

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#98782 - 05/09/05 08:27 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: theburk - banned]
Robin Offline


Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 42
Loc: Cambridgeshire, England, Brit...
She didn't overlook theology, or rather books dealing with it. In fact they're barely relevant in relation to her comments. If you have something relevant to say, say it, if not why don't you start your own thread. If you cannot find an apporpriate place to post your own thread on this site then maybe you shouldn't post one at all.
_________________________
Clarity.

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#98783 - 05/09/05 08:32 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Truly insightful words, Reverend. Knowledge is power, and a Satanist should always strive for power. To me, gaining knowledge is also a form of indulgence.

Something just popped into my head. Gaining knowledge is a means to make one's life better. Indeed, it is a means to improve the whole world. It seems to me that those who seek to bury themselves in ignorance, those who do not strive to learn, are practicing a form of self-deceitful masochism.

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#98784 - 05/09/05 08:33 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: theburk - banned]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

i just wish to adress some misgivings about my religeon.




This is your ultimate motive for being here, I doubt you will be benefitial here at all.
_________________________









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#98785 - 05/09/05 09:16 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
The rabbot hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

I personally relate to much of what you say.

As a Satanist I can honestly say that it is always important to keep the wheels greased so that they can run smoother. If they sit over time they begin to rust. The Black Flame burns brighter and higher as oil is applied. Gears begin to become loosened and experience becomes the key.

Over time science has offered much improvement for life on this wonderful planet. We may start out with riding a tricycle but eventually we become more advanced and sophisticated enough to drive our own cars. Satansim is the vehicle and we must all learn how to drive it.

Thank you Rev. Svengali. I look forward to your next post on this subject.
_________________________









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#98786 - 05/09/05 10:46 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041
What's most pathetic is when they try to make inferiors out of those who DO have the curiosity and creativity to learn about the world.

Pathetic indeed.

And it is carefully taught in the schools, and reinforced by TV.

This has been a tendency here in the US, a distrust of intellectuals, but it has become monstrous in the last few decades. There used to be a distinction between self proclaimed intellectuals with political agendas, and people who just liked to learn. I don't think that distinction is perceived any more.

Mental laziness -- thinking in slogans -- is encouraged far more than it ever used to be.

I don't know how many times people have said in shock "You read history for fun?!" , and "Why would you ever want to see some place outside of the US?" No wonder they are duped constantly -- they haven't a clue about human behavior. All they have is slogans to think with.
_________________________
Isabel
CoS Magistra

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#98787 - 05/09/05 10:57 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Isabel23]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10140
This slovenliness of the mind is taken to new heights by many Kentuckians, I am sorry to say.

Many Kentuckians act as though I must be a sneaky foreigner because I enjoy travel! They think leaving their county is an adventure, and have never, nor ever will, or would even like to, leave the state at all! Other countries are obviously out of the question. Xenophobia here extends to people only a hundred miles away, in the same state!

I know the experience all too well. Some unsuspecting fellow asks what I do for fun, and if I should tell them anything at all, they immediately suspect that I must be up to something. I am, of course.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#98788 - 05/09/05 11:48 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Again that reminds me of when I was on that date and the girl told me that talking about ants was weird. It was rather amusing that she actually explained to me how to be normal. Yeah, thanks for the tip girl.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#98789 - 05/10/05 02:20 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12591
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
This may very well prove to be the most important thread here, Reverend Svengali.

You have tapped into the critical theme of Satanism.

Thank you!

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#98790 - 05/10/05 06:45 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I understand your point, Bill_M. Sometimes I get the "Why do you hold on to so much useless info." statement. Most of the time I can say to that person that this "useless info" answered his question and then I ask "Do you spit on the Dictionary that gives you the spelling of the word that you do not know how to spell?". Igronant ingrate.

Yes, stupidity should cause pain; Ignorance should too.

_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98791 - 05/10/05 06:50 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Quote:

Dr. LaVey was fond of saying Satanism demands STUDY – NOT worship.




I love that statement.

Here is a religion that challenges the one who chooses to practice it to continually improve themselves and their knowledge.

The reading lists from the Church, Dr. LaVey, and others that have been mentioned here are exhaustive. However, each time I pursue one, something new comes to light.

The volume of reading material I believe has a turning away effect for people who will not apply themselves. We see it here time and again from those looking to "learn about Satanism".

No! Do it yourself! Hell, most of us are still working on it,



even the Priesthood!

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#98792 - 05/10/05 06:56 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Isabel23]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
It is for these reasons that my wife and I read to our three sons. We read from old children text books to specialized "one topic" books about minerals, the planets, animals from oceans depths... etc. They love it and learn so much about everything. It is so important to teach our kids when they want it and to love to learn, because sooner than later it all changes.

_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98793 - 05/10/05 07:00 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Maya]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Good post Maya, I think you are right in that statment.

Keep-on learn'n...

_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98794 - 05/10/05 07:28 AM Re: Study not worship [Re: Svengali]
Leo_V Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 517
Yes. The self service here is excellent.

I appreciate your post, Reverend and look forward to the 'more'...
_________________________
Never Say Die!

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#98795 - 05/10/05 08:14 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
What an inspiring thread. I am in my fourties, and often feel that I am just beginning to "get it". One of the invigorating aspects of Satanism is that their is never time to rest on your laurels.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#98796 - 05/10/05 10:54 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I realize this is largely preaching to the choir, having never met or heard of a real Satanist who did not possess a private library worth taking to a desert island.

Acquiring knowledge is not about using it pretentiously, it is about being cognizant of as much as possible for purposes of adaptation and exploitation.

Being largely self-educated, having left school at a very early age, I’m essentially mapping what I find to be the best approach for whoever might find it useful. I don’t recall learning anything of value in public school. My public school experience was entirely negative. This led me later to read up on the history and development of public education. This series of posts is what I would have liked someone to have handed to me when I was sixteen or seventeen years old. I share the opinion of many serious educators that most education of consequence is SELF education anyway. The idea is to expect more from yourself than anyone else would expect from you.

Nothing is safely assumed, even of allegedly “educated” people. I have an associate who is a retired professor from a large state university in the Midwest. For a time he was a visiting professor of American History at Oxford, where, he told me, students were given a list of 16-20 hardcore scholarly books to finish over the summer for their fall course. That’s 16-20 heavy books that they were expected to have under their belt before ONE course. When he returned to his position at the state university, he had students who thought Vietnam was in Korea, and that the Vietnam War was during WWII. Most people are out to get their ticket punched so they can enter the workforce. There is nothing wrong with this, but the topic here is actual life-long education for its own sake – not temporarily bluffing through, or scraping under the wire with the minimal requirements. I have seen this play out with my own eyes in other contexts. So there is nothing that can be safely assumed of the so-called “educated.” Standards vary. Especially the standards to which people hold themselves.

Before the gulags now known as “public schools” were spawned from the egalitarian socialization-over-knowledge theories of John Dewey, most primary and secondary educational programs were modeled after the “Seven Liberal Arts” dividing education into the “Trivium” (3 parts) and “Quadrivium” (4 parts). This is useful for our discussion.

The Trivium consisted of Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric.

The Quadrivium consisted of Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, and Astronomy. This scheme dates from the Middle Ages and is obviously not adequate for the scope of information available on all subjects today. Alternatives for this will be discussed below.

The Trivium was originally implemented from Tutor to Student as STAGES of education.

In the initial Grammar stage, the student was expected to learn the basic elements of knowledge. Memory is a key factor at this stage.

This was followed by the Dialectic (or Logic) phase, where the student is expected to exercise his critical thinking skills, to evaluate whether information is true or false, correct or incorrect, and make logical connections between cause and effect, historical events, scientific phenomena, words and their meanings, etc.

In the Rhetoric phase, the ability to organize and articulate individual opinions and arguments pertaining to any given subject was expected of the student. Rhetoric covers all modes of verbal expression, argumentation, and uses of speech. This is now most commonly encountered as Composition, which is Rhetoric of the written word.

The three stages can also be applied to any given topic.

1. Grammar: Gain the basic knowledge of your subject, collect the raw information to be analyzed later.

2. Logic: Analyze and evaluate the information, is it true or false, correct or incorrect, what are the logical relations of its parts?

3. Rhetoric: Digest the information into your own understanding. Organize and express your findings, opinions and arguments about the information you have surveyed.

Grammar, logic, and rhetoric are about the cycle of acquisition, comprehension, organization, and presentation of knowledge.

At face value, Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric are the BASIC TOOLS of the mind.

SUGGESTED READING:
The Lost Tools of Learning by Dorothy Sayers: http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html
[ignore the Christian slant]

1. GRAMMAR
1.a. BOOKS:
The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (2. vols.)
The King’s English by Fowler.
Fowler’s Modern English Usage.
The Elements of Style by Strunk & White.
Etyma: An introduction to vocabulary-building from Latin & Greek by C.A.E. & L.J. Juschnig.
English Words from Latin and Greek elements by Donald M. Ayers.

1.b. ONLINE:
The American Heritage DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE: http://www.bartleby.com/61/
Roget’s II: THE NEW THESAURUS: http://www.bartleby.com/62/
Strunk & White’s THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE: http://orwell.ru/library/others/style/index.htm
H.W. Fowler THE KINGS ENGLISH: http://www.bartleby.com/116/
American Heritage BOOK OF ENGLISH USAGE: http://www.bartleby.com/64/
The Columbia GUIDE TO STANDARD AMERICAN ENGLISH: http://www.bartleby.com/68/
The Columbia Encyclopedia: http://www.bartleby.com/65/

2. LOGIC (& CRITICAL THINKING)
2.a. BOOKS:
Being Logical by D.Q. McInerny.
The Philosopher’s Toolkit by Baggini & Fosl.
Critical Thinking by Max Black.
Introduction to Logic by Irving Copi.
A Concise Introduction to Logic by Hurley.

2.b. ONLINE:
Mission Critical: http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html
Logic & Fallacies: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html
Informal Fallacies: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/fallacy.htm.FALLACIES
Logical Fallacies Index: http://datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

3. RHETORIC
3.a. BOOKS:
Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student by Corbett & Conners.

3.b. ONLINE:
The Forest of Rhetoric: http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm



The Trivium is also one model for home schooling. Concerning the Quadrivium, the problem of schematizing the complete scope of human knowledge has been dealt with in various ways over time, before and after Martianus Capella. More specific on these ideas and their relation to Satanism later....

I’m interested in all thoughts, comments, opinions, book recommendations, etc. on these concepts so far.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98797 - 05/10/05 11:09 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
That's quite a bit to digest Reverend Svengali.

If you were to place yourself in the postion of one just beginning to delve into these subjects,how would you prioritize this reading list?

Thank you in advance for your wise advice,Crafter.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98798 - 05/10/05 11:16 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: IronCrafter]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
1. Strunk & White's ELEMENTS OF STYLE. An awesome little book that is itself a model of lucid expository prose, to be read, re-read, ad infinitum, to be internalized.

2. McInerny's BEING LOGICAL. His professed motive was t o create for basic logic what Strunk and White did for english usage. He succeeded. Another lucid little book to be read, re-read, ad infinitum, to be internalized.

3. Corbett & Conner's CLASSICAL RHETORIC FOR THE MODERN STUDENT. This is probably the best general textbook of Rhetoric that I have found (I collect logic and rhetoric textbooks).

This "core" list will be added to later.

A good dictionary is also indespensable.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98799 - 05/10/05 11:21 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Indeed.

I have a knack for seeing how various disciplines are connected. I'm actually in a special program at my college where, instead of taking one history course, one English course, etc., I can take specialized classes that combine, in essence, different disciplines.This means that while we're studying history, we also look at the scientific theories that blossomed during a particular age, and how those related to the religious theories of the age, and how that all related to the political situation, and how that was all reflected in the literature of the time. This means, for example, that instead of taking a boring course in English and writing, I can take a course on philosophy that will have an emphasis on teaching me writing and English skills, while also teaching me about philosophy. These courses are usually team-taught by teachers from different disciplines, as well.

When I tell people I'm part of this program, they generally look quite intimidated or befuddled, and they tell me how hard it must be and how much work must be involved. They can't see how these disciplines are actually related, so they interpret relating disciplines to each other as challenging or weird. But, I'm all about exploring the psychology of religion, or the science of history, or the writing mechanics of philosophy.

I also get assorted comments on my major/minors and my various interests, because they don't seem to be related in most people's eyes.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98800 - 05/10/05 11:22 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Eussiah Offline


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 33
This is indeed a very important and interesting thread. I admire your ability to compose your thoughts on such a profound and meaningful subject so well.

Quote:

The idea is to expect more from yourself than anyone else would expect from you.




Every person, when considering Satanism, should ask themselves if this is true for them. This is really what seperates the few from the herd. The "strong will" does not want to skate through life on luxury and complacency. The strong willed individual wants to strive, to exert oneself, to expand oneself to include all things. Too many who claim to be Satanists latch onto the "do what thou wilt" idea as an excuse for sloth of body and mind. If one's strongest desire is for complacency and laziness, then this person is not suited for Satanism. Why worship the self, if the self is a weak, ignorant, lazy thing? The self to worship is the self that seeks to encompass all knowledge and ability.

I have long been annoyed by "Satanists" whose highest peroggative is the life of ease and complacency (Nietzsche's "last man"). I thank you for bringing up this topic. To hold oneself to higher standards than anyone else would impose might just be the criterion by which "real" Satanists may be differentiated from the angry, the reactionary, and the slothful. Worship of the self requires a worthy self to worship!

I look forward to more discussion about the education systems. I myself attended private school, where the range of subjects and connections between them were indeed focused on, at least moreso than the public schools in my area. But no school is ever sufficient. I viewed my school experience as a menu which described various subjects. If something sounded tasty, I would go to a bookstore and order the whole meal. Unfortunatey, this is not the attitude that most (if any) schools advocate today.

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#98801 - 05/10/05 11:23 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Remorazz]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Ignorance should cause discomfort, while stupidity should cause actual pain, to my mind. There's nothing sinister about ignorance, provided one eradicates it post haste. Stupidity is being proud of ignorance, fundamentally.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98802 - 05/10/05 11:26 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Thank you Reverend.

A better ordered thought process seemed the most critical jumping off point to me. I'll look forward to your next update,thank you once again.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98803 - 05/10/05 11:28 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Isabel23]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Or, like I mentioned before, the people who gasp at my extensive knowledge in various areas, as if assembling knowledge was akin to picking prickly pears under an August sun.

It is always interesting to me how many television shows feature brainy characters whose braininess makes them exceptionally weird, snotty, and inaccessible, when in reality, this is obviously not the case. I have a sizeable vocabulary by normal standards, but I can and do still use slang---I'm not a robot by any means!

As for mistrust of intellectuals--just notice how few real intellectuals get elected to public office or become really popular celebrities. People don't want to feel inferior or lacking, rather, they want their stars and politicians to be good ol' boys and girls like them.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98804 - 05/10/05 11:58 AM Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: TrojZyr]
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
I agree - at least ignorance can be cured.

Ignorance is a primitive man from Papua New Guinea sticking his finger in a plugged in light socket, assuming that this individual has had absolutely no experience with electricity.

Stupidity is when a licensed electrician sticks his finger into a light socket to see if it works.

Ignorance is simply a lack of experience - stupidity is when experience is ignored.
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#98805 - 05/10/05 12:58 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Nyarlathotep]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Agreed, but, shouldn't every effort be made to elliminate the ignorant or at the very most "reform" them? I beleive that the ignorant loves his/her ignorance and will not put out the effort to help themselve (most of the time I found).

Is it up to the "elite" to "show the the way"?

I just hate it when someone says: "duh! I donno" ...


I tolerate it from my sons that is about it...
_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98806 - 05/10/05 01:12 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Remorazz]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Remorazz,the really sad thing is that the ignorant fail to realize that NOT being ignorant serves thier best interests.

But again this pig headed refusal to work to better oneself is what stupidity is all about. One can,but refuses to. So they look to government to "level the playing field" in a deluded attempt to lessen the inevitable consequences of thier inadequecies, instead.

After all,it's supposed to be an *egalitarian* system catering to the fastest speed of the slowest members,right?

Which is the same system used in public schools, and a lot of why education is so inadequate.


Edited by IronCrafter (05/10/05 01:15 PM)
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98807 - 05/10/05 01:59 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Remorazz]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Agreed, but, shouldn't every effort be made to elliminate the ignorant or at the very most "reform" them? I beleive that the ignorant loves his/her ignorance and will not put out the effort to help themselve (most of the time I found).


Simple ignorance, as we've defined it in this thread, is a problem of access to education.

Willing ignorance, or stupidity, on the other hand, is not something that can be reformed. The best way to deal with it is to simply let them bear the consequences of their own actions. That's what law is for.
_________________________
reprobate

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#98808 - 05/10/05 02:06 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Creed Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
Indeed, formal education does not a Satanist make. As you are so eloquently walking us through, it takes much more finesse, well-rounded knowledge, and critical thinking skills to be able to effectively exploit those grey areas.

Being able to present ideas in a lucid manner is of paramount importance. In fact, if you can’t express your ideas so that others can understand, there’s no point in expressing them at all. But of all the concepts you’ve spoken of so far, I believe critical thinking to be the key. We must be able to synthesize our knowledge and experience in order to put it to use, and thus become more adept at exploiting those grey areas.

I’ve never heard of The Trivium. Thank you for presenting it in such an easily understandable manner. And your suggested readings have been duly noted and added to my list. I always appreciate your willingness to bring your very relevant thoughts into this forum.

The system I’ve been using to sharpen my own critical thinking skills goes more along the lines of Bloom’s Taxonomy. It basically describes six cognitive levels from which critical thinking can be demonstrated.

The first level is “Knowledge”. Basically, a starting point that includes both the acquisition of information and the ability to recall the information when needed.

The second level is “Comprehension”…the basic level of understanding. It involves the ability to know what’s being communicated in order to make use of the information.

The third level is “Application”. This includes the ability to use/demonstrate a learned skill in a new situation.

The fourth level is “Analysis”. This is where the information is actually broken down into its integral parts and the relationship of each part of the total ‘organization’ is identified.

Level five is “Synthesis”. Just like it sounds, this involves the ability to combine existing elements in order to create something original.

The last level, level six, is “Evaluation”. This is the ability to make a judgment about the value of something using a ‘standard’.

For me, there is a very Satanic measure to this way of thinking, as it allows for a methodical path of categorizing, synthesizing, utilizing and thus deciding how best to exploit our knowledge.

I look forward to the next installment of this very compelling serial post!
_________________________
"If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life." - Albert Camus

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#98809 - 05/10/05 03:41 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
I actually dropped out of formal education during my junior year of college. Much to the dismay of my extended family, I made that choice. They didn't understand it at first, being that I've scored very highly on different kinds of markers and throughout youth have always been very intelligent.

I just wasn't focused. I just wasn't built for it - I've always processed knowledge better when I've made the proactive step to study it.

I'm saying this because I've learned a great deal since that period - both in street knowledge and in book. And I feel a lot greater for it, for making the decision to learn what I choose. I'm certainly not hurting financially at the moment due to my decision.

I got a lot out of this, Rev. Svengali, I really have to thank you. Because it's very true, and kind of hit home to me - not b/c I'm at a lack of desire to continue educating myself, but rather b/c I recognize the need. It's actually quite humbling, yet equally empowering.

And I'm not just saying that in a "Words of wisdom from on high, thank you CoS higher-up" kind of way, I really mean it: good job.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98810 - 05/10/05 05:56 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Nyarlathotep]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Precisely.

I'd also say stupidity is when essential common knowledge or common sense is ignored.

Just watch the game show "Street Smarts" if you want an example of this.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98811 - 05/10/05 07:32 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Maya]
G X B Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 405
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Truly insightful words, Reverend. Knowledge is power, and a Satanist should always strive for power. To me, gaining knowledge is also a form of indulgence.




If I may be so bold, I feel your epiphany is a bit askew when considered. I don't think Satanists should strive for power, I think by their very nature they do strive for power.

Quote:

Something just popped into my head. Gaining knowledge is a means to make one's life better. Indeed, it is a means to improve the whole world.




If the gain and use of knowledge as a means to improve one's existence is something you just realized, my dear, you've got a ways to go.

Quote:

It seems to me that those who seek to bury themselves in ignorance, those who do not strive to learn, are practicing a form of self-deceitful masochism.




And this would imply that the person in question is incapable of being a successful masochist?
_________________________
G. X. B.

Replace "In God We Trust" with "Responsibility to the Responsible."

"Knowledge is long, and life is short, and he who does not know, does not live." -Baltasar Gracian, The Art of Worldly Wisdom

MySpace | The Third Side Conservative | Undercroft



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#98812 - 05/10/05 07:51 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: G X B]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

If the gain and use of knowledge as a means to improve one's existence is something you just realized, my dear, you've got a ways to go.




I feel your statement is in error as anyone who has an average reading level can see this. Here is what she said as you have quoted;
Quote:

Something just popped into my head. Gaining knowledge is a means to make one's life better. Indeed, it is a means to improve the whole world.





From my point of view on this statement, she wrote it as the idea developed in her head, not so much something that he just realized for her life. In essence, she would have had to experience the things she is speaking of. Again, just from my own perspective.


Edited by Unknown (05/10/05 10:00 PM)
_________________________









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#98813 - 05/10/05 08:02 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Aside from how things relate to Satanism, I've never understood this immense apathy that so many adults have to learning anything outside of their TV. I mean, don't people want to know at least a thing or two about the world? History? Biology? What all the fuss is over "E=mc2" or Shakespeare? Visit another country in their lifetime? Read a book that isn't from the first floor of Tower Records? I'll never understand it.

I think it's sad. People are brought up with the notion that education ends when school is out. My co-workers gawk at me as if I were exposing myself when I bring a psychology book to read at lunch time. I walked by a group of guys the other day with Summer for the Gods in my hands and their reaction went something like: " Daaaamn...He into dat smart sheeit."

Why would someone not be interested in these things? Especially something like psychology, which, in my opinion, is the most important science there is to learn because we apply it every day! With all of the debate about putting prayer in school and warning labels on science books that teach evolution, why wouldn't people want to know about the Scopes Trial?

It's the difference between external attribution and internal attribution . Most people only do things when they are told to do so (external attribution). They have to have that external reason, be it mom, dad, god, or M.T.V. " I do this because so and so told me to" Like people who are always "good Christians" on Sunday, but then spend the rest of the week sinning their tales off, because they attribute their "good" behavior to an external figure: The Preacher. But as soon as they are out of his sight then their behavior quickly changes.I'ts like a class room of children who are well behaved until the substitute teacher arrives.

Then there are those who do things because they are sincerely interested, or because they have a good sense of dutey and responsibility (internal attribution). Instead of: " I read this book because the teacher told me to ", it becomes: " I read this book because I'm that kind of person ."

In August I will start going to college. I'm going to get my Masters in psychology and probably a Minor in criminal justice. I'm not doing it because someone told me to or because it's the right thing to do. I'm doing it because I enjoy these subjects enough that I feel I can apply them in a productive way. I want to challenge myself and rise above the masses...

because I'm just that kind of person.


Edited by johnharperjr (05/11/05 08:40 PM)

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#98814 - 05/10/05 08:20 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>>I have a knack for seeing how various disciplines are
>>connected. [TrojZyr]

I would go so far as to say that this is one of the most "evil" things one can do these days. Just try talking about the applied mathematics of artists like Dürer or Divinci, the business side of music (objectively), the history of religion, or the 3rd Reich and...well, anything outside of genocide. There's certainly a Satanic third side to a world filled with self-proclaimed "math n' science" and "art n' literature" people.

>>It is always interesting to me how many television shows
>>feature brainy characters whose braininess makes them
>>exceptionally weird, snotty, and inaccessible, when in
>>reality, this is obviously not the case.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a movie that doesn't depict mathematicians as absent-minded lunatics!
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#98815 - 05/10/05 08:55 PM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: IronCrafter]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Agreed,

Sadly it is a part of our world.
_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98816 - 05/10/05 09:28 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>>Most people are out to get their ticket punched
>>so they can enter the workforce. There is nothing
>>wrong with this, but the topic here is actual
>>life-long education for its own sake – not
>>temporarily bluffing through, or scraping under
>>the wire with the minimal requirements.

I was a TA in college for Linear Algebra, and after one class I was talking to a student who mentioned he was an electrical engineering major. I picked up the course's book and flipped to the back pages, saying "Oh, you know there's actually an interesting little chapter in the back here on electrical circuits and how it relates to..." He quickly cut me off to explain that it was of no interest to him, because he was a senior. Silly me -- I thought he might have the slightest interest in a subject he spent 4 years and countless tuition dollars studying!

>>I’m interested in all thoughts, comments, opinions, book
>>recommendations, etc. on these concepts so far.

Nice to see that we already share some of the same recommendations, Reverend. My favorite books in general are the ones heavy on the left-brain thinking, like math books, music theory books, and brain teaser/puzzle books. Though I can't think of too many books off hand that deal with the skill of logic itself. I have books that deal with doing faster arithmetic or developing memory skills, but these are more about applying sneaky tricks. Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" comes to mind, but I'll have to take a closer look at my book shelves.

I'm sure this can be said of the other two categories, but I find that the best way to sharpen logic is to read books that directly employ it, like some of the types I mentioned I like reading.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#98817 - 05/10/05 09:48 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: G X B]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

If I may be so bold, I feel your epiphany is a bit askew when considered. I don't think Satanists should strive for power, I think by their very nature they do strive for power.




I admit that this is a valid point, though I would like to add that a Satanist should indeed strive for power, lest they betray their very nature. That is probably what I should have said in the first place.

Quote:

If the gain and use of knowledge as a means to improve one's existence is something you just realized, my dear, you've got a ways to go.




I never said that I just realized it, I said that it popped into my head. There is a significant difference, so you needn't be so patronizing.

Quote:

And this would imply that the person in question is incapable of being a successful masochist?




No, my statment did not imply that, you simply inferred that. As far as being an ignorant, yet successful masochist goes, that depends on your definition of success.

With that said, I'll put the focus where it should be. Before I do, GXB, let me just say that I find your avatar picture disturbing.

Reverend Svengali, your last post was very interesting indeed. I have to say that I find the educational programs you outlined make a hell of a lot more sense than the systems of the diploma factory we call a public school system. I would like to know more about this topic. I shall have to check out some of your recommendations.

As a side note to Unknown, while I thank you for defending my statements, I should tell you that Maya is always a female name. If I have to have to tell you again, I will do so with a boiling oil enema. Thank you.

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#98818 - 05/10/05 10:04 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Maya]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Sorry, I was in a rush like usual and didn't have time to read the entire thread. I edited it. Sorry Maya .
_________________________









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#98819 - 05/10/05 10:57 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Reverend,

EXCELLENT POST!

Trofimov's line from Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard (about being an "eternal student") comes to mind.

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#98820 - 05/11/05 12:48 AM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Remorazz]
Solomon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
I would see no benefit from educating the ignorant, willing or not.

The ignorant, starving, drugged masses are there to serve their purpose. They will die hollow deaths chasing already dead dreams.

They are a resource that is told what to do, how to do it, and when they should do it. No thinking, just acting.

If one decides to rise above the herd mentality, then it is of their own accord, and they shall be rewarded accordingly.

That reward is knowledge, experience, wisdom.

All of which build and build the more one educates himself.

All of which is a life-long task.

None of which I would give freely to any chucklehead who wants the answers to something he couldn't begin to comprehend in the first place.

Let them rot. It's what they were meant to do.
_________________________
Dodge Swinger 1973, Galaxy 500,

All the way stars' green, gotta go.

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#98821 - 05/11/05 12:52 AM Re: Stupidity VS Ignorance [Re: Solomon]
Stirner Offline


Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 84
You're right, of course. No amount of education can reach those who are too dull to comprehend to begin with. Satanists are a breed, not a class. The notion that you can "enlighten" the average person is a farce. The only thing worse than a moron is an educated moron.
_________________________
Lured by my style and tendency,
you follow and come after me?
Follow your own self faithfully--
take time!--and thus you follow me.
-Nietzsche

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#98822 - 05/11/05 01:06 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Solomon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
The Elements of Style by Strunk & White.

This book has been an indispensible friend in writing everything from speeches to thesis.


Furthermore, I want to thank you for the effort put into these posts. They paint the perfect portrait of the Satanist; not the ivory-towered gloss of "Holier Than Thou", but instead the true sorcerors of this world. Those who know what is going on, why it is going on, and how to direct themselves accordingly.

Robert Greene's The 48 Laws of Power would make an excellent addition to the reading list, however at the behest of this post, I would recommend that those reading this should begin with the basics given if they have not already.

Thanks again.
_________________________
Dodge Swinger 1973, Galaxy 500,

All the way stars' green, gotta go.

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#98823 - 05/11/05 01:23 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: J. Hagalaz]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Amazingly, this week seems to be full of events that relate to this topic and prove this point.

Just spent some time chatting with some classmates who reported sourly just how much they hate school. One of them remarked (and I think I caught a whiff of some suspicion and disdain behind it--that one always gives me a strange vibe I don't know how to read, in any case) how smart I was. Based on what I've observed, the one who said this seems to skip classes that offend him, and becomes quietly adversarial towards any professor who teaches anything he considers to be too secular or too Satanically influenced. (Yah, one of those.)

I think you'll agree if I say that this is, quite literally, a no-brainer.

Just this week has been filled with people broadcasting their stupidity and their fear of knowledge, so I've just had to share all the incoming anecdotes. Some kids seem to resent school because it pulls them away from their video games, while others resent it because their professors make Baby Jesus cry--I ask, why pay several thousand dollars if you're going to just be bored and po'ed, and if you're going to fail out or barely slide under?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98824 - 05/11/05 01:38 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Aha! You've touched on a mistake I often make with people---I see them studying something or even playing with a hobby, and I go too fast and too deep, assuming that they have an actual passion, and that they know how to apply what they're doing. Subsequently, I often get a bewildered or frightened look when I enthusiastically begin to ask someone if they've done this or that and plan to that or this or if they've read or heard about some obscure thingamajig.

Even more shameful, I am so silly as to assume that people major in things that interest them personally.

I get more excited about what people are doing than *they* do about it!

I have learned, however, that some of the saddest, most pathetic people in the world are intended business majors. There should be a special euthanasia station within the business department or something--so many of them talk about their lives and future career plans like they're being eterntally banished to Siberia.

The dumbest are education ed or women's studies, incidentally.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98825 - 05/11/05 03:18 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Eussiah]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12591
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I agree with your intent 100%.

However there is one item you might want to reconsider, not because it is wrong but because there might be a superior or more useful way to view it.

Quote:

Worship of the self requires a worthy self to worship!




I would suggest first that there is a value in taking yourself beyond evaluation. You are your own God and God doesn't need straight "A"s on his report card to be God, if you follow me.

I enjoy learning things. It is it's own reward.

I'll bet that's true for you too.

Just a suggestion.

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#98826 - 05/11/05 05:51 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

I have learned, however, that some of the saddest, most pathetic people in the world are intended business majors. There should be a special euthanasia station within the business department or something--so many of them talk about their lives and future career plans like they're being eterntally banished to Siberia.




I agree. College makes morons by the dozens. And nothing says useless like "Business major". There is something about four years of egalitatian, altruistic, indoctrination that creates a not only arrogant person, but a stupid one as well.

My great grandmother had this to say. And I find it holds true, most of the time.

"There are three kinds of people. People that think and talk about people. People that think and talk about things. And people that think and talk about ideas. The smarter more interesting people tend to think more on things and ideas, or people that had great ideas, or accomplished great things. People that are troublemakers and are inherantly stupid usally can be found gossiping, creating social chaos, and will usually talk about other people, and the petty actions of other mundane people. Rarely will you find one talking about a book they read recently, or an idea they had."

If you happen to work a day-job, stop and eves-drop on the idle conversations of any leaders, managers, or supervisors. Pay attention to the topics they like to discuss. Most of them will talk about people mostly. What their family did, what so-and-so said over by the water cooler... Then go find an engineer, or technician, listen in on their conversations.

Quote:

The dumbest are education ed or women's studies, incidentally.




Isn't that cliche? The real peices of work end up teaching children? Well, not like any real harm is being done.

And what the fuck is women's Studies? Is there a Men's Studies and a Hermaphrodite's studies?
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#98827 - 05/11/05 07:37 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Markus_Mayer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Germany, this planet
Satanism is not only a special kind of religion or philosophy, it is a special kind of humans! I never had the hunger to introduce myself like "I am a Satanist!". I even don´t introduce myself like "I am a human!". At the end both is nonsens and not necessary. No matter how I call myself - people of my tribe will always recognize me as what I truely am. And I will recognize them...

I agree with you, Reverend Svengali!
_________________________
Markus Mayer

"Black is the sum of all colors!"

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#98828 - 05/11/05 10:28 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>>And what the fuck is women's Studies?

Oh you know, things like cooking, cleaning and sewing. Be sure to tell a "Women's Studies" major that the next time you see one!
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#98829 - 05/11/05 10:41 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Nemo]
Eussiah Offline


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 33
Quote:

I enjoy learning things. It is it's own reward.
I'll bet that's true for you too.




Indeed it is. The type of worth I was trying to refer to wasn't a value measured in grades or other kinds of results. I probably should have been more clear that I was referring to the attitude described above, that learning is its own reward.

The fact that I exist is enough to get the ball rolling. In first placing myself above evaluation, as you said, I first came to worship myself. But I find that such a state of non-valuation is hard to sustain in a society, and especially when interacting with other Satanists. Valuation comes into the picture whether we like it or not, though we, unlike the people we are surrounded by, choose our own values. In choosing a value for myself, the desire and drive to learn, so long as it is followed by the action such as reading a book or observing the world, seems to be a worthy standard. Having the knowledge itself is the goal, naturally, but I am no more of a worthy object for self worship because I have added some bit of knowledge to my memory. It is the active desire to do so that makes me worthy in my own eyes, and eventually results in the accumulation of knowledge which translates into power.

It seemed to me that many who were replying here share the same or a similar type of value-system for themselves.

Perhaps I should amend my earlier statement. Someone considering Satanism should first find himself/herself capable of self-worship, outside of any valuation. This should always stay with him or her, but this person must promptly ask, "If not the values of the culture around me, than what kind of values would I like to live by, and thereby serve myself best?" This, I think, is where the ideas of this thread come into play. It seems that if the person in question is of a Satanic mind, the value of constant study and learning is both a good way to further the self and also an instinct (using that last word very broadly). It seems to be, at least among those replying here, that the urge to learn is a strong part of the Satanic will. It is hard to imagine transcending the cultural valuations without this urge.

A final word on this subject:
The valuations we choose for ourselves must be seen as guides, not mandates. We will always fall short of an absolute value. Therefore, as you said, taking oneself outside valuations is the only way to be one's own god, and this is important to remember at all times.

Thanks for the comments. I hope this is somewhere along the lines of where you were going.

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#98830 - 05/11/05 11:05 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
Hey man, don't be dissin' on business-folk. I'm in that ilk.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98831 - 05/11/05 11:50 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Nemo]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Quote:

I would suggest first that there is a value in taking yourself beyond evaluation. You are your own God and God doesn't need straight "A"s on his report card to be God, if you follow me.




I do follow you in this thought process,Magister.

I've done enough "navel gazing" to know my inner beast, and it's quirks, etc.......but that becomes counterpoductive after a while..One begins to get into unreasonable realms of self-doubt.

What I have learned is to go with my gut instinct,since the evaluation process is internalized to that level now.

My subconscious is programmed to do that FOR me.

So having moved to that point,all I have to do is know if I feel pleased or displeased with myself. If it's pleasure, I have done well..If not, I make the needful adjustments to bring me back to that feeling.

There is no need for validation-only to follow my muse.

It's in no way a measure of perfection,but of happiness.

I want to grow and expand my horizons until my moments are gone,to have a thrilling time with life. Education is expensive..It requires time, and it can be painful.

But the rewards always exceed the hardships.

One becomes more,and that's never a bad thing.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98832 - 05/11/05 11:59 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, I think the arrogant, stupid people at college tend to belong to one of two types:

Those who took the classes, and took them too seriously.
Those who took the classes, and didn't take them seriously at all.

One type becomes a joyless, pretentious, screamy ideologue, who uses college classes to push them deeper into a safe, warm ideological-behavioral box so that they'll always have an auto-response or auto-reply to everything that life tosses at them. The other becomes a joyless "dude, school sucks, everything sucks" burger flipper or number cruncher who *would* commit suicide, if they had more self-awareness.

Neither type is capable of actual learning, I'd say.

Well, to be fair, many of the ed majors will make decent teachers for the littluns--that's not the problem. I've just noticed that the folks who go to a place of higher learning with the aspiration of spending life with toddlers tend not to be the brightest fingerpaints at the easel. A lot of them seem to be cutesy Christians who just are intimidated and perplexed by adult situations and conversations, so they're retreating to a place where they won't have to confront such things.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#98833 - 05/11/05 12:10 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Before going into issues surrounding the intent and limitations of the classical Quadrivium, there is something worth discussing.

With the basic tools of the Trivium; basic language and vocabulary skills, logic and critical thinking skills, and skill in the devices and means of rhetoric and composition, is another skill: READING.

As most people mistakenly believe they already know how to think well just because they have thoughts, most people mistakenly believe they know how to read well just because they enjoy reading.

Just as the acts of thought are improved by acquiring the basic systematic methods of grammar, logic, and rhetoric, there are systematic methods of READING.

This brings us to another book I would add to the “core” list: HOW TO READ A BOOK by Mortimer Adler and Mark VanDoren.

I first read this book when I was around 17, having owned it for some time, presumptuously assuming it beneath me because I had been an avid reader most of my life. Nothing could have been farther from the truth. This is one of the most valuable books I have ever encountered.

I have passed this book along to several people with impressive academic credentials who were similarly impressed, having never encountered stand-alone systematic reading instruction in the course of their education. Consensus is that this is an invaluable systematic approach to getting the absolute most out of reading for education rather than mere entertainment.

Adler and VanDoren outline systematic reading into five stages: 1. Inspectional Reading, 2. Active Reading, 3. Annotative Reading, 4. Analytical reading, and 5. Syntopical Reading (Reading multiple books on one subject).

The progression is as follows:

1. Inspectional Reading.
1.1. Look at the title page and read the preface.
1.2. Study the table of contents.
1.3. Check the index.
1.4. Read the dust-jacket or book cover.
1.5. Skim the book.

2. Active Reading.
2.1. What is the book about as a whole?
2.2. What is being said in detail, and how?
2.3. Is the book true, in whole or in part?
2.4. What of it?

3. Annotative Reading.
3.1. Underlining.
3.2. Vertical lines at the margin.
3.3. Star, asterisk, or other do-dad at the margin.
3.4. Numbers in the margin: to indicate a sequence of points in a developing argument.
3.5. Numbers of other pages in the margins: to indicate relevant passages on other pages of the book.
3.6. Circling key words or phrases.
3.7. Writing in the margins.

4. Analytical Reading.
4.1. Finding out what a book is about.
4.1.1. Classify the book according to kind and subject matter.
4.1.2. State what the whole book is about with the utmost brevity.
4.1.3. Enumerate its major parts in their order and relation, and outline these parts as you have outlined the whole.
4.1.4. Define the problem or problems the author has tried to solve.

4.2. Interpreting the book’s contents.
4.2.1. Come to terms with the author by interpreting his key words.
4.2.2. Grasp the author’s leading propositions by dealing with his most important sentences.
4.2.3. Know the author’s arguments, by finding them in, or constructing them out of, sequences of sentences.
4.2.4. Determine which of his problems the author has solved, and which he has not; and of the latter, decide which the author knew he had failed to solve.

4.3. Criticizing a book as a communication of knowledge.

4.3.1. General rules of intellectual etiquette.
4.3.1.1. Do not begin criticism until you have completed your outline and your interpretation of the book.
4.3.1.2. Do not disagree disputatiously or contentiously.
4.3.1.3. Demonstrate that you recognize the difference between knowledge and mere personal opinion by presenting good reasons for any critical judgment you make.

4.3.2. Special criteria for points of criticism.
4.3.2.1. Show wherein the author is uninformed.
4.3.2.2. Show wherein the author is misinformed.
4.3.2.3. Show wherein the author is illogical.
4.3.2.4. Show wherein the author’s analysis or account is incomplete.

5. Syntopical Reading. Studying more than one book on a particular subject.

5.1. Surveying the field preparatory to Syntopical reading.
5.1.1. Create a tentative bibliography of your subject by recourse to library catalogues, advisors, and bibliographies in books.
5.1.2. Inspect all of the books on the tentative bibliography to ascertain which are germane to your subject, and also to acquire a clearer idea of the subject.

5.2. Syntopical reading of books from the bibliography compiled.
5.2.1. Inspect the books already identified as relevant to your subject in order to find the most relevant passages.
5.2.2. Bring the authors to terms by constructing a neutral terminology of the subject that all, or the great majority of them can be interpreted as employing, whether they actually employ the words or not.
5.2.3. Establish a set of neutral propositions for all of the authors by framing a set of questions to which all or most of them can be interpreted as giving answers, whether they actually treat the questions explicitly or not.
5.2.4. Define the issues, both major and minor ones, by ranging the opposing answers of authors on one side of an issue or another. You should remember that an issue does not always exist explicitly between or among authors, but that it sometimes has to be constructed by interpretation of the authors’ views on matters that my not have been their primary concern.
5.2.5. Analyze the discussion by ordering the questions and issues in such a way as to throw maximum light on the subject. More general issues should precede less general ones, and relations among issues should be clearly indicated.


Special attention should be paid to the Active, Analytical, and Syntopical phases.

Here’s how I look at a book or any other piece of writing intended to convey information with interpretation or any form of argument: From the ground up, words are arranged into sentences which are arranged into paragraphs which are arranged into sections or chapters which, arranged together, form the book. The book is on the subject, the chapters are subdivisions of the subject, the paragraphs are units of information, argument, etc. Each chapter contains paragraphs of leading importance. Each paragraph has a sentence of leading importance, or statements that can arranged into a cogent summary of the point.

So, theoretically, depending on how well thought out, well organized, or well written a book is, it’s contents can be broken down to a numbered outline, similar to my outline of Adler and VanDoren’s method above.

When marking a book, I underline the leading sentences of each paragraph, making a star or some do-dad at the margin next to it to highlight its importance in relation to the other paragraphs. In the margin I will write numbers indicating the steps of development of the authors argument. These are the parts extracted into an outline.

The outline can then be cooked down into a summary.

Until you can coherently outline and summarize the contents of a book, you cannot claim to know the contents of the book.

To recap, in criticizing a book, as Adler points out, outside of agreement with the author’s presentation, analysis, interpretations, or arguments, there are only four ways to disagree with any aspect, or with the whole:

1. Because the author is uninformed (Lacking information).
2. Because the author is misinformed (Wrong or incorrect information).
3. Because the author’s reasoning is flawed (Argument includes non-sequiters or other logical flaws).
4. Because the author’s account, analysis, or presentation is incomplete.

How good a reader you are depends on all of this, predicated off the basic tools of the Trivium.

If you don’t understand the meaning of a word in a sentence, you will not understand the sentence. This is what dictionaries and vocabularies are for.

If you don’t understand the meaning of a sentence in a paragraph, you will not understand the paragraph. This is what grammar is for.

If you don’t understand or can’t identify a statement that serves as the premise of an argument, you will not follow the argument or be able to evaluate its validity. This is what logic is for.

If you are not capable of recognizing common forms of argument, their fallacies, methods of verbal deception, and means of persuasion, you will be at their mercy. This is what rhetoric is for.

Rhetoric is Lesser Magic with words – grammar and logic are its raw material.

More about the Quadrivium its limitations and solutions, what to read, categorically and specifically, and why, to follow……
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98834 - 05/11/05 12:25 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: TrojZyr]
Trendkillers Offline


Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 67
In my experience, most of the people getting teaching degrees are people that either didn't know what else to get a degree in, or women that just went to college to get married. Either way, people that went to college for the sake of saying they went to college.
_________________________
"A friend of the devil's is a friend of mine" Ave Satana!

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#98835 - 05/11/05 12:47 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Deurges Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 35
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Anton LaVey has demonstrated how a creative synthesis should work. Therefore, every talented wanderer on the path will produce his or her personal "reading-list" sooner or later. But it is always helpfull to see what others have achieved, so we can imagine what is still hiding in the dark and waiting to be pulled into daylight by ourselfs. This is the idea of sharing knowledge and expanding it.


Edited by Deurges (05/11/05 12:47 PM)

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#98836 - 05/11/05 01:27 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Bill_M]
Stirner Offline


Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 84
Quote:

>>And what the fuck is women's Studies?

Oh you know, things like cooking, cleaning and sewing. Be sure to tell a "Women's Studies" major that the next time you see one!




hahahahaha I recommend against that, unless you enjoy fuming feminazis.
_________________________
Lured by my style and tendency,
you follow and come after me?
Follow your own self faithfully--
take time!--and thus you follow me.
-Nietzsche

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#98837 - 05/11/05 01:31 PM Re: Question. [Re: Svengali]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Do you limit yourself to a certain number of relevant sources upon entering the Syntopical Reading stage so as to keep your progression going at an efficient rate?
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#98838 - 05/11/05 01:37 PM Re: Question. [Re: Mr_Atrox]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
That is a very good question.

Everyone has different capacities and reading patterns.

Personally I follow a fairly consistent pattern.

I’m going to have thoughts to share on that in another context after 2 or 3 more posts.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98839 - 05/11/05 01:55 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Notice how the progression of syntopical reading conforms to the phases of the Trivium:

The Grammar Phase:
5.2.1. Inspect the books already identified as relevant to your subject in order to find the most relevant passages.
5.2.2. Bring the authors to terms by constructing a neutral terminology of the subject that all, or the great majority of them can be interpreted as employing, whether they actually employ the words or not.

The Logic Phase:
5.2.3. Establish a set of neutral propositions for all of the authors by framing a set of questions to which all or most of them can be interpreted as giving answers, whether they actually treat the questions explicitly or not.
5.2.4. Define the issues, both major and minor ones, by ranging the opposing answers of authors on one side of an issue or another. You should remember that an issue does not always exist explicitly between or among authors, but that it sometimes has to be constructed by interpretation of the authors’ views on matters that my not have been their primary concern.
5.2.5. Analyze the discussion by ordering the questions and issues in such a way as to throw maximum light on the subject. More general issues should precede less general ones, and relations among issues should be clearly indicated.

The Rhetoric Phase would consist of organizing and presenting your own outline, summary, conclusions, arguments, interpretations, etc. of the material covered.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98840 - 05/11/05 02:13 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Some fascinating ideas you have brought up, Reverend. I find it interesting that I seem to incorporate many of the above processes in my reading naturally, without even knowing I was doing it.

In fact, the statement about inspecting books to find the most relevant passages reminds me of a technique I used to use on the reading comprehension sections of standardized tests. Instead of wasting time and effort on reading the whole selection, I would start on the questions immediately and refer back to the selection for the answer, skimming until I found it. I found this method to be a great time saver that actually boosted my scores, as I had more time to check my answers for errors.

I never was a big fan of standardized tests. I always considered them to we a waste of time and effort that forced teachers to cram set ammounts of often useless knowledge into the brains of often unwilling students when they could have been teaching something interesting.

Anyway, it seems that I have gone off topic. Sorry about that. Thank you once again for another excellent post, Reverend.

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#98841 - 05/11/05 03:04 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
Wow! And some people tell me I'd approach reading a book too seriously.

I literally study a book in all its aspects and (metaphorically) pluck it to pieces, if I think it's worth it.

Your exposition is excellent advice, Reverend Svengali!
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#98842 - 05/11/05 07:56 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Huit Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Toronto, ON
The idea behind public schooling these days is not so much to educate youth, but to keep them busy for a few years until they're old enough to work without violating those pesky child labour laws. Being incarcerated in one of these institutions myself, I agree with everything that has been said here so far. In my four years of high school I can count on one hand the number of courses I've taken that I have actually enjoyed, and these (anthropology, psychology, sociology, and philosophy) are what I'll be studying in university next year. Its surprising how many of my peers simply want to graduate, go to a good school, get a fancy-sounding degree and jump into a miserable life of 9-5 and primetime TV. Most kids are more concerned about their GPAs than about actually learning anything. I think the mindset of my generation can be heard in the collective groan that comes when a teacher announces that we will be reading Shakespeare, poetry, greek philosophy, hell, anything.

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#98843 - 05/11/05 08:09 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Huit Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Toronto, ON
I find people's unwillingness to travel surprising. Some of my best experiences have been when I have visited other countries and continents. I've been to Paris, Madrid, Toledo, Cordoba, and across Costa Rica, and I would jump at a chance to go back to any of them. Its entertaining to see the look on someone's face when they are talking about the Mona Lisa or some other famous artwork and you say "Oh, yes I've seen it." I just can't see how the masses can bear to sit around and not even think about visiting the outside world.

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#98844 - 05/11/05 08:20 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I remember sitting on the school bus thinking to myself, here we are sitting on the bus getting shipped to the factory so they can mold us into the secular society they desire us to be.

I have always learned more spending time doing things I enjoy. Reading books I like and studying the things in Life that are important to me for my success.

I suppose the public schools serve to keep those who are servents below us who are rulers.

I look forward to applying these principles Rev. Svengali in a far more in depth matter. Thank you for sharing this wisdom.
_________________________









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#98845 - 05/11/05 09:47 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Unknown]
Kenose Offline


Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 70
The problem with school ... is the fear to teach anything useful to children, due to that they are children unable to decide for themselves what yet they are actually interested in... and the fact that our society consists of many different cultures and beleifs all fighting for their own two cents worth to be hammered into the minds of the child, that in the end you basically goto a school and come out with very basic ideas taught/shown to you, a very watered down approach so as to not upset parents of different beleifs.

Of course all we end up getting are students with no passion for anything, and the ones with any passion have to suffer through the mundane and pursue their interests outside the public school system.

Oh yea... forgot to add ... and the parents often let television and video games raise their children after school... so what do you end up with ? ... only takes one look around to see the results.


Edited by Blacklodgearts (05/11/05 09:49 PM)

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#98846 - 05/11/05 11:01 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Kenose]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
Quote:

so what do you end up with ? ... only takes one look around to see the results.




What's to be expected when you have a medium that changes focus every 15 to 20 seconds. People with the attention span of a gnat,and who are best suited to flipping hamburgers in fast food joints.


Edited by IronCrafter (05/11/05 11:02 PM)
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98847 - 05/12/05 01:02 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Thank you for posting this. It was quite generous of you to break it down that easily for everybody. I´ll be sure to pick up the titles you mentioned and read them accordingly. When I like a book I do strip it down usually by underlining important passages and further studying all sources they appoint but I´ve never stripped any of them down to these extents -- I definitely should though as in fact I will from now on. I just despise people who refuse to educate themselves yet insist on having an opinion. You touched on many very important facts in this thread.

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#98848 - 05/12/05 07:59 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Maya]
G X B Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 405
Loc: Florida
On the contrary, you DID say you just realized it. Reread your post. While I'm not going to monotonously banter about this, I will say that my avatar is indeed disturbing...and amusing.

_________________________
G. X. B.

Replace "In God We Trust" with "Responsibility to the Responsible."

"Knowledge is long, and life is short, and he who does not know, does not live." -Baltasar Gracian, The Art of Worldly Wisdom

MySpace | The Third Side Conservative | Undercroft



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#98849 - 05/12/05 01:57 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: G X B]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

On the contrary, you DID say you just realized it. Reread your post. While I'm not going to monotonously banter about this, I will say that my avatar is indeed disturbing...and amusing.




Why are we still talking about this? If you want to pick a fight with me, that's fine, but this thread is not the place to do it. While I cannot say for sure, I would think that everyone would rather discuss Reverend Svengali's post than watch you nitpick my choice of words.

I really don't wish to continue this argument. You can find fault with my wording all you want. You can make a list, for all I care, as long as you read it to yourself and leave me the hell out of it.

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#98850 - 05/12/05 02:02 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Maya]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Why are we still talking about this? If you want to pick a fight with me, that's fine, but this thread is not the place to do it.




Indeed.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98851 - 05/12/05 08:50 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
toad Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1185
Loc: texas
The Trivium method of teaching is very interesting to me, and I appreciate all you have, and will have, to say on the subject. I was wondering though if there are any books that deal with the Trivium method of teaching specifically that you could recommend. I have my weekly bookstore trip this Saturday, and I would like to have a nice list of books to buy instead of the usual browsing until something catches my attention.
Toad
_________________________
Hail Shadow

I have the power to channel my imagination into ever-soaring levels of suspicion and paranoia.

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#98852 - 05/13/05 11:47 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: toad]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
There is a two volume translation of Martianus Capella’s “The Seven Liberal Arts” from Cambridge University Press, but it is archaic and probably only of interest if you are specifically interested in how it was presented in the Middle Ages.

Really, one of the best texts on the APPLIED idea of the Trivium/Quadrivium is the Dorothy Sayers article I linked to above. The Sayers article was capsulated in Susan Wise Bauer’s THE WELL-EDUCATED MIND, which is not a bad book, but I wouldn’t place it on the “A” list. The Sayers article is better, it delivers everything you would need concerning the CONCEPTS.

As an expansion of the concepts, at the very least I would recommend;

BEING LOGICAL by McInerny or THE PHILOSPHER’S TOOLKIT by Bagini & Fosl
HOW TO READ A BOOK by Adler & VanDoren
A GUIDEBOOK TO LEARNING by Adler
LIFETIME READING PLAN by Fadiman - this is much better than the Baur book mentioned above.

The books by Adler and Fadiman can usually be found second hand for a pittance.

I may not follow up on the above posts here – the next installment has expanded beyond proportion and there are at least three more installments after that – these and the above posts are being integrated into a full-length article for the CoS website and/or the first DIGEST edition of THE BLACK FLAME.

I may still post condensed installments.

Thank you for the interest.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98853 - 05/13/05 12:01 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
No sir,

Thank you for your mind expanding insights.

Thank You sir.

_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

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#98854 - 05/13/05 12:12 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Ortrud Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 252
Loc: NYC
Thank you, Sir!

Your post gave me a much needed shot in the ass, as I have been "coasting" for awhile, not reading, not growing in my understanding of Satanism. I'm inspired to get back to the books.

Hail Satan!
Ortrud

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#98855 - 05/13/05 01:24 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
REMEMBER:

Satanic Sin #1 is STUPIDITY.
Pentagonal Revisionism Point #1 is STRATIFICATION.

…. do the “math.”

I’ll feed back on any developments of this thread, which could productively turn to a discussion of other BOOKS that provide big “bang for the buck” in terms of general education.


Edited by Svengali (05/13/05 03:42 PM)
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98856 - 05/13/05 01:33 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Ortrud]
Dollie Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Where I'm at.
Thanks Rev. I too needed a skaing up and I will definately look into these titles. You are one brillant man I must say.


HS!
_________________________
~You can dye shit purple, and it'll still be shit~

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#98857 - 05/13/05 09:40 PM Probing "deeply", now... [Re: Svengali]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
If a long column about someone else's opinion is not of interest, this would be the time to pass on my post here. However, my quality of life has intensified greatly by this sentimental "rubbish" that follows, so it might be tolerable for some instrospective types.

I like thinking of Satanism as a philosophy that encourages me to do what comes natural. I don't expect easy-going people to be stern. I don't expect dominant people to act like woosies. So long as a person can use what they've got effectively, then they should be able to incorporate Satanism (most of it) into their lives.

I recognize that not everyone loves money. Some people are content with just a few things and a lot of long-term investments or retirement funds. Other people like to spend money whenever they can, which is fine so long as one can afford it. Not everyone has the same expectations of success. Not everyone knows what success is.

Anyone who's been affiliated with the Church of Satan for a long time (a decade, maybe) is going to find the pipsqueak convictions of a newbie ridiculous, contemptable, or worse. It is understandable unless one forgets that even a moron can live life more completely if they put Satanism into practice in principle. Meanwhile, they may not exactly be making the Pinto look like a Porsche, if you know what I mean. Maybe he won't have the prowess to convince the world that he's a master of his fate. But THAT part is forgiveable, I think, if the person understands their own faults. I don't mind the guy who sweeps up garbage in a parking lot for a weekly paycheck but knows what Satanism is and how to use it to acquire more for himself. It is much better than the complacent fool who mimicks Satanism but doesn't really KNOW it. Other newer members jump on a bandwagon of sorts, playing the role of afficionado while having no experience to go with it. About 4 years into it, I saw the same thing in myself and decided to remove myself from the "representative" arena as much as possible. In all honesty, I had no business tango-ing with it, but it was important and seemed realistic at the time. Meanwhile, I was still creating a Satanic archetype in my own image, being more honest with myself and eventually building up a resource of energy and prowess that would have been there no matter what religion I chose to have. That was a key realization of magical power for me, because it felt very sincere. I was more proud of myself and more knowledgeable about my truest inner "beast" or "natural" self in the long run. The world is no less full of worms, and sin still pays.

One turn-off that I'm sure has been encountered a lot is the obsession to exaggerate and flaunt "evil". Magister M. Rose once wrote, "I have never TRIED to be evil". (circa 1996) That was something I really identified with. If the Church of Satan were to advocate a definitive description of "evil", I wouldn't be surprised to see a new trend of evil-doers. (Mgstr. Rose may have also said something like that, too, I'm not sure...)Trends shouldn't exist in Satanism. No one should have to TRY to be a Satanist, because if that were the case, every effort would be directed by dogma. Certainly it makes sense to thrive on self-empowerment; but I think when people refer to "self-improvement", it has different connotations that are harder to relate to Satanically speaking. One tends to defeat the other. Personally, I think if people were to let go of their ambitions towards some sort of pretensious reward for being "betterer Satanists" then the problem of boasting one's memorization of Satanic dogma would deteriorate, and newer Satanists would spend more time doing something truly different and truly unique, rather than focusing on what sort of approval rating they can get by touting out a bunch of pre-written sentences from Secret Life of a Satanist. (Or many wasted hours re-drawing Baphomets). Oddly enough, I've found that being a Satanist is in fact not an "action" towards being more Satanic, or being more of anything at all, but rather a natural result of relaxing one's stupidity and pretensiousness enough that one can see clearly and live for themselves for once. "Action" should not have a stigma. Perhaps there are other ways to look at it, but I'm very satisfied with this approach. I seriously feel that one's natural responses (i.e., children who make wise "sorcerers") are the greatest source of magical power, but they usually have to be realized and actualized through ritual/effort as much as possible before the ensuing forces can really start working. If a person is unique, talented, clever, witty, capable, or has any superior Satanic characteristics, it won't be from reading chapter after chapter of CoS books. For me, a reading of the Satanic Witch , for instance, is an opportunity to see what works for me and what doesn't. It isn't an instruction kit that is going to teach "advanced Satanism". If Satanism doesn't work at all for someone, then I would have to wonder what the hell they are trying so hard for or why they even bothered with it. Why "try", when you should already be able to "do"? Constant failure and circular discussion of "unique ideas" (that are not-so-unique) never did anything for anybody. It certainly didn't qualify anyone for priesthood. Getting off one's ass and DOING something to employ Satanism is more than just reading a book, I agree. It is more than study. It is more than "practice". It is a matter of being who you are and making the most of it, which can eventually guide the subconscious (the "Leviathan") mind towards acheivement of personal accomplishments and hidden potential. In that sense, living a Satanic life, which involves magic and excercising one's "beast", becomes a sort of wicked alchemy that really illuminates the dark psyche and soul of a Satanist.

It is unfortunate that people are so concerned with social status and earning lip-serviced qualifications that they "forget the original" self that they started with, and work overtime trying to ascertain the right pieces of information, or the right "looks". The question is how valid any of it is for each individual. Anything awkward or forced will not work and will backfire; every single time. Anything free-flowing and helpful will increase power. No one said that the Devil was for everybody, nor am I anyone's righteous role model, but for as long as I can pick up the Satanic Bible and acknowledge that at least a few things in it (usually a LOT things) are beneficial and fairly automatic for me, then I'll continue to value Satanism, the Church of Satan, and the work of Anton Szandor LaVey. Make of it what you like, but personally I couldn't imagine anything being simpler, and yet apparently it confounds and confuses quite a number of folks. It's a strange world.

If it sounds like I have digressed from the topic, I simply agree with Svengali's assertion that Satanism is supposed to be more than just reading the Satanic Bible, reciting the 9 statements, or any of this dogmatic stuff. I sought to find more value and benefit in living a Satanic life much-based upon what I have typed here. Perhaps it will open some ears, eyes, or doors; otherwise, it will rot in WWW wasteland, and so be it. All I know is that my life is just about everything I could want, and all this had something to do with it.


Edited by Captn_Thatch (05/13/05 09:46 PM)
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton

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#98858 - 05/13/05 09:55 PM Re: Probing "deeply", now... [Re: Captn_Thatch]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
I liked this,even if it's not totally on this topic.

Satanism is something I feel in my gut. The bible was only like dropping a stone into that pool of intrinsic vitality,the ripples spreading outwards...... It stirred things up,and got it moving more coherently.

Books are only a starting point,then you begin to really live like you mean it-and it's a BITCH,you have to recognize and overcome a lot of bad habits that don't serve your best interests.

I never thought this was going to be easy,or some sort of new fad-it's who I am,and will become. You people here who have walked down your own paths ahead of me are useful in seeing these things more clearly.

Thanks.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#98859 - 05/16/05 03:48 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I'd like to suggest a book I picked up that's filled with alot of up to date reasearch in the medical and scientific fields. Building Mental Muscle by Allen D. Bragdon and David Gamon.

This book has alot of resourceful information that scientists and researchers are now accepting alot of the things Dr. LaVey taught in The Satanic Witch.

It's also filled with puzzles and games that builds memory. I like this book and I'm sure others will find it a worthy subject to look into.
_________________________









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#98860 - 05/16/05 03:56 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Unknown]
Tiberia Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 894
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
That looks extremely interesting. I just love it when Amazon lets you look through the book before you buy it. Thanks for suggesting it.

HS!

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#98861 - 05/16/05 04:34 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
This is the bare-bones Wolf Larson cabin bookcase version:

1. The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. 2 vols.
2. Elements of Style by Strunk & White.
3. Being Logical by McInerny [and/or the Copi or Hurley textbooks]
4. Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student by Corbett & Conners.
5. How to Read a Book by Adler & VanDoren.
6. A Guidebook to Learning by Adler.
7. The Rise of the West by W.H. McNeill.
8. The Story of Civilization by Will Durant.11 vols.
[8.a. Supplemented by Modern Times by Paul Johnson.]
9. The Britannica Great Books of the Western World. 2nd ed. 60 vols.
10. The Encyclopedia Britannica. 15th ed. 31 vols.

Get a handle on this and you will be firmly in “the zone” – this is very doable for anyone with IQ above that of a retard.

Hint: Turn off your TV, turn off your CD player, put away your video games and computers, and start reading.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98862 - 05/16/05 04:50 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Quote:

I’ll feed back on any developments of this thread, which could productively turn to a discussion of other BOOKS that provide big “bang for the buck” in terms of general education.




Here's a text which I believe is valuable to any person who wants a bare bones grasp of the English law principles which developed into American law: Law 101, by Jay Feinman.

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#98863 - 05/16/05 05:06 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Noel]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Thank you Noel, That’s good to hear. I have that book at home, I’ll move it toward the top of the “to be read” stack. If I remember correctly, it looks to be written in a very accessible style and format.

Another funny thing, after your “Satanic Textualism” essay, I looked over the books I inherited from a lawyer friend of mine who passed away and was pleased to find the book by Scalia among them, along with the 4 volume Founders Constitution, and a complete edition of Blackstone’s Commentaries in two gigantic volumes.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98864 - 05/16/05 07:59 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Please let me know what you think of Justice Scalia's book after you read it, Reverend.

Oh, and here are some other books which I find useful:

--Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace, by Joseph M. Williams

--Getting to YES: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, by Roger Fisher and William Ury

--Getting Past No: Negotiating Your Way from Confrontation to Cooperation, by William Ury

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#98865 - 05/16/05 08:23 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

Hint: Turn off your TV, turn off your CD player, put away your video games and computers, and start reading.




On MTV down here, they pick a random time every day and leave a blank screen on for a couple of hours displaying only the message : "Go Read A Book." Now, I´d probably have to watch it regularly to find out if it´s working, which I won´t, but considering the source, I think the attempt on itself is valid and applaudable.

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#98866 - 05/16/05 08:43 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Satanya]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

On MTV down here, they pick a random time every day and leave a blank screen on for a couple of hours displaying only the message : "Go Read A Book." Now, I´d probably have to watch it regularly to find out if it´s working, which I won´t, but considering the source, I think the attempt on itself is valid and applaudable.




If the people at MTV were serious about boosting the collective IQ they would pull the plugs and go jump off the nearest bridge with cinderblocks wired to their necks.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98867 - 05/16/05 11:58 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Life-long education for its own sake...

That's a concept I can live with.

Great read Reverend Svengali
Thank you

gypsy
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#98868 - 05/17/05 12:20 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

If the people at MTV were serious about boosting the collective IQ they would pull the plugs and go jump off the nearest bridge with cinderblocks wired to their necks.




I think it is a good thing that they are trying to get kids to educate themselves from an early stage. Those who would take advantage of and put to use the advice would only gain with it. It is like this thread, not all will use it and it´s content, not all will even read it. I do however have a place for your idea, Reverend, perhaps the soap-opera folks could use it... they reach a bigger number and generally a number of parasites who are unlikely to change thinking structure as in understanding of basic logic principles via study, since they have done nothing about it so far, "it is too late now." Your idea in this case if applied, would certainly diminish the possibility of such stagnating culture spreading along the lines of future generations. All the christian-church folks could begin this leading by example...perhaps there´s hope to that, now their pope kicked it, their 666 no longer is -- they could face it, their job here is done. Ended. Finito.

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#98869 - 05/17/05 08:24 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Satanya]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:

If the people at MTV were serious about boosting the collective IQ they would pull the plugs and go jump off the nearest bridge with cinderblocks wired to their necks.




I think it is a good thing that they are trying to get kids to educate themselves from an early stage. Those who would take advantage of and put to use the advice would only gain with it. It is like this thread, not all will use it and it´s content, not all will even read it. I do however have a place for your idea, Reverend, perhaps the soap-opera folks could use it... they reach a bigger number and generally a number of parasites who are unlikely to change thinking structure as in understanding of basic logic principles via study, since they have done nothing about it so far, "it is too late now." Your idea in this case if applied, would certainly diminish the possibility of such stagnating culture spreading along the lines of future generations. All the christian-church folks could begin this leading by example...perhaps there´s hope to that, now their pope kicked it, their 666 no longer is -- they could face it, their job here is done. Ended. Finito.




I don’t have any delusions about “changing people” – this was posted for the benefit of the few who “get it” and want it. The rest can go put their mouth around the barrel of a gun.

As far as MTV is concerned, it would take a lot more than 2 hours of dead screen reading “go read a book” to compensate for their endless barrage of retrograde mind-numbing propaganda for assholes: Their non-stop push is INDISCRIMINATE EGALITARIANISM sugar-frosted with SHITTY MUSIC. They are the worst of TV and that is saying a LOT. They indoctrinate the human cattle to be louder, stupider, and even more idiotic looking.

MTV defines the first tier of people who should be eradicated.

I have only ONE thing to say to trendy brain-dead music-centered youth: “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” SHITHEADS – PULL UP YOUR STUPID PANTS AND FORM A LINE AT THE PLATFORMS, THE TRAINS WILL BE ARRIVING SOON.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98870 - 05/17/05 08:26 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: gypsy]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Thank You.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98871 - 05/17/05 10:26 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
I understand Dear Reverend and I agree. I was only comparing the thread to what they are doing to a minor degree. MTV down here however, is not as bad as in the USA, they have many programs centered on education. I have no hopes to change people either, only as it is unlikely that they will off themselves, as fun to entertain the thought as it often is, to me even, more beneficial I find since aforementioned fact is at hand, would be to me to think that in say ten years time if I need to share the streets, stores, public establishments in general with others, it will be with others who are more courteous at least than present generation, courtesy being a reflect of said education. If I need to do that meaning that if I am not myself living by The Misanthrope Survival´s Guide in ten years time then I might as well swap the 'label' Satanist to a literal stamp that would go on my forehead saying "incompetent" -- then in such case I should off myself too, which would hardly be the case.

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#98872 - 05/17/05 10:38 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Satanya]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I agree wholeheartedly that the task of trendsetters should be training the human cattle to behave, speak, and dress better.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#98873 - 05/18/05 01:03 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Malin_Wolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 1712
Loc: A sleepy little hollow in Flor...
Thank you for all that information.
_________________________
"There is less time than the space that confines it. Make it count." -- Me
www.myspace.com/thesickman

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#98874 - 05/18/05 06:13 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Quote:

I have only ONE thing to say to trendy brain-dead music-centered youth: “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” SHITHEADS – PULL UP YOUR STUPID PANTS AND FORM A LINE AT THE PLATFORMS, THE TRAINS WILL BE ARRIVING SOON.





Can I help sort?

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#98875 - 05/18/05 06:25 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: PWG]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

Quote:

I have only ONE thing to say to trendy brain-dead music-centered youth: “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” SHITHEADS – PULL UP YOUR STUPID PANTS AND FORM A LINE AT THE PLATFORMS, THE TRAINS WILL BE ARRIVING SOON.





Can I help sort?




Oooo, me too!

But music-centered isn't a bad thing. It only becomes bad when people start to like, or pretend to like, music because the Powers That Be of pop culture, or whatever sub-culture a person might have assigned themselves to, says that they must like it. That simply degrades music as art, and THAT is a true abomination.

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#98876 - 05/19/05 01:59 AM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
HammerOfDoubt Offline


Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 479
Loc: Miami, FL
Quote:

MTV defines the first tier of people who should be eradicated.




Have you ever Watched any of it? I was at a friends house who's sister had it on, and holy fucking christ was it horrendous. It was made for people with the attention span and intelligence of a goldfish. I seriously COULD NOT READ for a full 3 hours after watching a minutes worth of it. Nex to getting my pinky fingernail snapped off in a door, it was the worst experience of my life.

You have started a fantastic thread here, and I cannot wait to see this on the CoS website once it is fully fleshed out and in proper form. I even gathered all of your posts here and put them together in a text file so I could get it all at once, unbroken.

Thank you.
_________________________
Mistaking insolence for freedom has always been the hallmark of the slave.
-Wilhelm Reich

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#98877 - 05/19/05 03:27 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: HammerOfDoubt]
Mike_Hargis Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/29/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Bensalem, PA (Philly 'burbs)
Quote:

Have you ever Watched any of it? I was at a friends house who's sister had it on, and holy fucking christ was it horrendous. It was made for people with the attention span and intelligence of a goldfish. I seriously COULD NOT READ for a full 3 hours after watching a minutes worth of it. Nex to getting my pinky fingernail snapped off in a door, it was the worst experience of my life.



MTV has gone seriously down hill ever since they lost Beavis & Butthead!
_________________________
Love completely those who deserve your love, & hate just as completely those who deserve your hatred! Hail Satan! Mike Hargis

www.myspace.com/satanist_in_pa
www.massagespace.net/Details/CMT-in-NE-Philly
www.brightfuse.com/mikehargis
www.facebook.com/people/Mike_Hargis/1381346496

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#98878 - 05/20/05 03:04 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Mike_Hargis]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

MTV has gone seriously down hill ever since they lost Beavis & Butthead!




MTV had nothing to offer, ever. Except for shortened attention spans and committing the worst aesthetics atrocities since the 1970's.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#98879 - 05/20/05 03:23 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Felstorm]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8896
Quote:

MTV had nothing to offer, ever.




A very mild and minor disagreement.

At the very VERY beginning, MTV played a very useful role in dismantling some aspects of sexual censorship.

That value dissipated into nothing quickly, as once a barrier is broken, breaking the same barrier again and again no longer serves much purpose.

Other than that historical quibble, (that you may be too young to recall), agreed.

Oh, just thought of another one.

MTV has done some good contextually speaking, in bringing (admittedly aesthetically rotten) carnal/sensual values into Iran over the last number of years via (illegal) rooftop satellite dishes, thus speeding up youthful disaffection with the puritanical Mullahs.

Very indirectly, MTV may have saved some American military lives, in the impending Iranian liberation.

So, other than THOSE two points, agreed.

Context is everything.

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#98880 - 05/20/05 05:05 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Quaark]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

Other than that historical quibble, (that you may be too young to recall), agreed.




I think MTV first aired in 1979-80, and at that time I would have still been speaking in unintelligble squeals. And the Iranian hostage crisis is a bit beyond my years as well.

But, I still maintain that despite whatever minor "good" MTV has been the result of. I't still responsible for promulgation of stupidity. And for that Dachau's ovens should be lit once again.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#98881 - 05/20/05 06:14 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Unknown]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>>I'd like to suggest a book I picked up that's filled with
>>alot of up to date reasearch in the medical and
>>scientific fields. Building Mental Muscle by Allen D.
>>Bragdon and David Gamon.

I have that book too. Great exercises. I didn't get through all of it, though. As far as memory techniques go, when I was in high school I bought Harry Lorayne's "Memory Power" kit after seeing an infomercial for it. Best $40 I ever spent.

Oh and as for Mtv, they were a great station...when they actually played music videos. With not many having touched the music video medium up until that point (1981), there was a good variety of creative bands having fun with the medium. By the 90s, it seemed like every video was a blurry shot of an alternative band playing in a bathroom.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#98882 - 06/12/06 06:12 PM Re: DEEP SATANISM [Re: Svengali]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I have always made it a point to maintain my education to the highest standard possible. This is a very good post, Magister. I will definitely be keeping up with these books and other subject matter you have posted. I thank you for your post.

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